Season 5 - Werewolf - Day 2

Jackie wrote:

Of course you think that since you didn't vote, lol.
Who knows if some of the people who came after the board was locked would have voted or not?

Again, I TRIED to vote lol Look at my history in this game, I dont' think I've ever missed voting.

I dont' think Termy's a wolf just because we haven't heard from him since he was voted for last round, and last time he was a wolf he at least hopped on to defend himself and state why we shouldn't vote for him.

I don't think Jackie's getting very defensive at all, she posts like that all the time lol Everyone's going to defend themselves. I think the difference here between Jackie's defense and since Kenya brought it up, Kenya's defense last game is anger in defending oneself (sp?)

I do think Jackie is one of the smartest people in the game, I think she was killed early once because of that reason and then last season she was a suspect and not killed early. And every season I suspect Jackie because of how smart she is hahahahahah

Maybe Dragontear's vote isn't as random as we think, maybe she sees something in Jackie we dont'

I agree with you about Termy. Last round when we were wolves he always made sure to defend himself and convince yall that he wasn't a wolf. I dont know why he wouldnt do the same thing in this game, especially since it worked so well for him last time. There are a few people here who I have noticed are usually more talkative than they have been so far in this game. Maybe it's because it's still early in the game and there isn't anything to go on but..... Im watching those that usually talk, who arent talking now.

I'm confused why Michael! hasn't added his thoughts yet this round when he's been on the site after the day started and he was accused. Yet he's posted in Voter's Choice 3. He had some interesting thoughts when he posted last round, yet hasn't said much since...so I agree that there is reason to suspect him. At the same time, he's almost stood out out too much to be a wolf, but that could easily be his strategy to make us think that.

As far as Termy, he hasn't posted anything since his "mini-hybernation" over a week ago. If he's a wolf and we're all actively talking about thinking he's suspicious and targeting those who are least active and not contributing, you'd think that he'd be trying to post and fit in more to keep the target off his back. He has been on the site since, although like last game, he was on the site and couldn't post much because he was at work. It's hard to tell what his psychology is, but I agree that he's also potentially suspicious.

Concerning others, I have to go right now, but I'll be on later to post more theories. For now, I'd just really like to hear from some of the silent people. But at least we've got some interesting conversation going right now all the same with a few days left.

One other point is that Pete seemed to be in favor of the pro-lynching last round at the start and while he stated his reasons for thinking not lynching was better at a point, I thought he was one of the biggest advocates of an early lynch last round...not one of the biggest advocates of not lynching.

I wanna hear what PhocQ thinks.. he's way more quiet this game than the last one. Why is that PhocQ?

Oh and Tiffani.. DragonTear is a male.. it says so right there on his profile

ahhhhhhhhhhhh sorry Dragontear, I don't check profiles or even those side thingies until just now when Kenya said something lol Dragontear just sounds so lady like lmfao Maybe because of Dragonlady? heheh

LOL Tiffani, that's probably what it is.

I kinda just assumed Dragontear was a guy.

Anyway though, besides that, I think that losing Michael and Termy will be less damaging than losing another villager, since at least the other villagers will be able to be around to make correct lynches, and not be continually staved off, and not killed by the wolves since they aren't contributing, if they ARE villagers, and maybe we'll get lucky, and hit the right mark.

In any case, I suspect Michael more than Termy, but I definitely wouldn't rule anyone out, not even Jackie. I do think that Jackie's words are resonating much more with me than usual. It's also important to note that Jackie can play the game well it would seem, but that she's never been a wolf, and it's good to have clever villagers. I'm not sure what you were basing that thought process of Dragon, lol. I think the theory that you attacked Jackie because Termy and you are wolves could hold some water, but I wouldn't target you, because I think you if you are a villager you will contribute more than Termy.

It seems like neither of Michael nor Termy is going to give us anything just yet, but I'm considering flipping my vote to Termy due to what I stated in the last paragraph.

Journal Log Day 2 Part 3

I am hearing more commotion from the Chamber of Elders. Infact I heard a few altercations between gender confusion. Hopefully the confusion does not clutter the minds of the Elders. I have been sensing another disapperance upon nightfall, but who will it be?

Yours Faithfully,

Thian

DEADLINE: 27 September 23:59 EST

Votes To Lynch:

1 Vote of 7: Michael! ((Deetster))
1 Vote of 7: Termy ((Jackie))
1 Vote of 7: Jackie ((DragonTear))

Pending Votes:
Termy, Tiffani, Dragonldy640, Brant, Dogdude84, PhocQ, Kenya, , Vastfanatic, Michael!

I'm not a WOLF god darn

Not much of an argument but then I never thought you were a wolf to begin with lol

Haha, i love thian's post about the gender confusion. thanks for clearing that up Kenya , but ya its just a game, and im just playing with Jackie in the sence that i dont know who is a wolf, and im just throwing a name into the works to get with the voting. but its getting exciting to see who is gonna get lynched on this dark day. lets see some more voting

Dragontear, your random name just seems like there's something more random than you're letting on. Why Jackie of all people? One of the most active, vocal, and smart? Makes me think either you're a wolf and want her gone fast, OR you know she's a wolf and just pretending it's a random vote. Decisions decisions.............

very much so decisions, decisions. lol, i just threw my vote towards jackie for the very fact that she is a experianced player, and like you said, smart active and vocal. you dont know if either of us are wolf's, and i dont know if any of the other players are wolf's, im just making a vote that no one else is making. it'll give the rest of the players more of a choice, because last day byran got creamed. almost everyone voted for him, and he was an innocent villager. whats to say everyone voting for termy or micheal! might be the same thing. like i said its hard to say, but im just playing the game

Kenya wrote:

I wanna hear what PhocQ thinks.. he's way more quiet this game than the last one. Why is that PhocQ?

Awww. And here I thought I posted stuff just cause I liked hearing myself talk sometimes. Glad to see there are some people who actually notice the things I say. lol

I was looking forward to hearing what Michael had to say and I thought about adding my vote against him to Deet's but I didn't really think Michael was a wolf. If anything, Michael is my best guess at who the seer is. As the seer last game I found it almost my duty to try and help the village as much as I could. Which I thought might be the reason Michael came on so strong in the first week. Plus, his wanting not lynch so badly I thought might be because he wanted to wait a round to see if he (or maybe someone else if he isn't the Seer) would find out who one of the wolves were at night. Really his likelyhood of being the seer over anyone else is only marginal, but at this stage in the game all we have is marginal clues to who have roles and what they are.

See, now that I just posted what I did above, it reminds me why it can be tricky typing out your thoughts on the board. IF Michael actually is the seer, then I probably just pointed the Sorcerer in his direction. lol If that's the case, then I apologize in advance, Michael. lol

Of all the things I have read in this thread, I agree with Deet the most. I think there are a lot of reasons to lynch less active players this early in the game. It's more fun. It's more helpful to have more people's opinions. Less active wolves are harder to catch than active ones. And to me, the most important is always my own safety. Active people are bigger targets for wolves so the more active people around me, the safer I am at night. lol

There is a pool of a few people I would want to lynch who I don't think are very helpful even if they are villagers. I didn't have Michael in that pool but if he doesn't show up soon to say somefin his value to the village will drop considerably. Termy's value to the village seems to be a question mark every game I've played. There are a couple of other somewhat obvious people I would put in that pool as well.

**sending pvt message to Michael**
**Begin Data Sequence**
**data recieved**
**Data Transfer**
Please note: Michael is still present and checking the message boards. He has encountered quite a lot of school work and other prior comittments. He will still be participating but needs focus on other areas first and will post as soon as he can.
Thank you
**End Data Transfer**
**Data transmitted**
**End Data Sequence**

Hmm interesting.. what PhocQ says either makes me feel there is no way he's the Seer, or he's covering up the fact that he is? hahaha he just pointed out he's not a wolf/sorcerer possibly.. by other stuff in there.. or he very well could be and could be trying to throw us off..

But for now I'm going to say.. my vibe is he's a villager.. for now.. he just seems to have a tendency to be TOO honest sometimes.. hence why I'm leaning towards him being either a villager or a bodyguard dun dun dun. (have I annoyed you yet PhocQ with the dun dun dun? Or was it duh duh duh? I don't remember now.. but anyway.. remind you of someone? hahaha sorry couldn't help myself! MOVING ON)

When Termy was a wolf.. he had a way better stories about not being a wolf than he has right now.. which is possible that he's doing that on purpose to try to throw us off or he's just being lazy and not putting much effort into defending himself.. but like some of you have already stated.. if we are to lose another villager.. it's better to lose one that isn't being very active right now.

Yeah, I agree with that Kenya. I'm getting stronger implications of Termy being a wolf, and the whole Dragontear nominating the active and "smart" (which is GOOD in this game).

I feel for Termy, he would be more elaborate if he was a wolf, because as a wolf I would assume you would be more paranoid, and as a villager there's a certain "they're not gonna screw up and kill ME". But...maybe he is trying to change his game up if he happened to be a wolf.

I think regardless, I'm either keeping my vote the same, or I'm voting Termy, unless either of those two give us some reeeeally good stories, or someone else comes up with something else.

Hey guys,

First off I want to apologize for not posting sooner. I thank our awesome host Thian for posting on my behalf earlier. I just started fall quarter this Wednesday and it’s been a tiring couple of days. Also, I have a game I’m in right now that’s getting pretty heated and taking up most of my online time. I’ve been able to pop on to ORG planet for some of the posting games and even to read some of your posts too. However I knew to get all my thoughts out I needed more time to focus and collect my thoughts and I haven’t had the opportunity to do that until now.

There are a few main reasons why I did what I did yesterday (in game time) and adamantly stood my ground for a no lynch, despite the fact that a majority seemed to be in favor of it. The first is the fact that, on day 1, we just have so little to go on, and in picking randomly, we were far more likely to pick a villager than a wolf. But really, that’s just one part of it. On day 2, there’s a lot more to look at. I mean it’s not just about the death itself, but reactions to who was killed. It’s always interesting to me to see how people’s ideas change throughout the course of the game.

The second reason is, as PhocQ suggested, out of hopes that the seer could aide us in the days to come. On day 1, there is absolutely no chance that a seer has obtained any useful information. On day 2, the chance exists. Even if the seer didn’t find a wolf, they may have cleared the name of someone who was a major suspect in the previous day, and possibly try to steer people away from that suspect. This is sort of an extension of the first reason in the idea that it’s about knowing more than you ever could have on the first day.

The third reason why I never wavered in my resolve for a no lynch, and probably the most important in my mind, was to give people the opportunity to deviate from the “popular” view point. By that, I’m referring to the one which started with Deetster’s safe list and was quickly affirmed by Jackie and Brant. In playing these games, one method of selecting lynches which has always frustrated me immensely is succumbing to a kind of “group think”, centering around some sort of central line of thought developed early and not straying too far from it. This often starts with one skilled, well-spoken player expressing his/her view, then many others jumping on the bandwagon.

Deetster, I feel, is a person who’s been very influential in the development of this game. His safe list, posted fairly early into day 1, has been referenced many times since and seems to have been deemed reliable by a number of players. There came a point during day 1 when it was evident my campaign for a no lynch was a lost cause, that someone would be leaving whether I voted to lynch or not. However, I didn’t vote to lynch, and made a point to stick out like a sore thumb with an unpopular opinion so that others would feel comfortable to do the same. Essentially, I figured if I staked my claim as the craziest person in crazy town with all my “radical” and “blasphemous” thoughts, other players wouldn’t mind sharing some different opinions for fear of being lynched because they could take solace in the fact that even if their ideas weren’t well-received, they still wouldn’t incur as much suspicion as me, or even if they did, at least they wouldn’t be alone. And here I’m not just referring to ideas regarding the lynch/no lynch situation, but any ideas that were conflicting with those of the masses.

Basically I just think it’s important to have everyone giving their personal insight and describing how things look from their personal perspective, rather than molding their thoughts to fit the group before sharing. Now, I’m not saying two or three or four people can’t arrive at some of the same conclusions, obviously they can. And I also believe it’s important to give the opinions of others consideration and if you agree with them, attempt to build on them. What I’d rather not see is everyone putting such stringent filters on themselves in fear of saying something that could be regarded as suspicious. I find this can be extremely counterproductive.

But it’s hard, you know. As villagers, as most of us are, one of our objectives is to find the wolves and lynch them before they’ve reduced us to the point where there are as many of them as us. However we do have one more objective and that is to survive. Whether or not any sort of ranking system gives us credit for being a dead villager in a game where the village won, I guarantee neither Bryan nor Pete will feel too accomplished about their experience in this game if they found out the village went on to win. People who favor one objective over the other will probably likely play completely differently than people who don’t, even when they’re both villagers.

Dogdude84 wrote:

It is very possible that the people making the most sense last round could be wolves. Just throwing that out there if anyone is able to build on that theory. I cannot because I'm a dummy when it comes to this game.

This is one of my big concerns too. I think the thing that all the safe-list people generally have in common is that they are skilled players of this game who have made well thought out posts that are not in tension with popular opinion. A skilled player has just as much chance of being randomly selected to be a wolf as someone who’s new, but arguably a better chance to disguise their identity. Now, I’m not saying all of the wolves, or necessarily any of them, are on this list. The list began with Deetster’s post and to my knowledge, no name has been officially added since then. If Deetster is a villager, it’s unlikely he would’ve had both wolves and the sorcerer on a 6-person list (he listed 5 names but Deetster himself is the implicit 6th). If he’s one of the bad guys, well… still I don’t believe he’d put both his partners and crime on the list with him and make their unity obvious. I also recognize that not everyone on this list is the same and hope you will all realize that I’m not necessarily suspecting you as a group if I end up voting for one of you today. Just personally I think it’s important we take what Cam said here into account and realize you’re not confirmed innocent just because you’re smart and well-spoken. :-\

Tiffani wrote:

^^^ funny you say that, yet Pete who didn't want to lynch at first was proven to be a villager and the person who was lynched also proved to be a villager, so I think your theory kinda flies out the window there Kenya lol I think once the majority was for a villager, the wolves probably all voted for him. I find it highly unlikely that the wolves would push for a no lynch when a villager was the target.

In the end this is pretty much the main defense I had for myself in regards to how I voted last round. Not that this confirms my innocence at all, but like Tiffani is saying here, it’s funny how you’d say the people pushing for a no lynch should be suspects even though Bryan turned out to be innocent and there would be no reason for the wolves and sorcerer to not just jump on the bandwagon at any time. I mean that way even if the people decided to look within the 9-person voting block for the wolves/sorcerer, there’d be 6 other people to throw suspicion on as opposed those who didn’t vote, whether intentionally or because they just weren’t able to in time, who stick out more and have less room to hide.

Okay so I’m going to stop now because this post is just getting too ridiculously long and nonsensical and it’s late and I want sleep. I have more to say (believe it or not) about my opinions of each player and my reasons for thinking why they might, or might not, be a wolf, but I’ll get to that later. But the take home message from my post is dare to be different, even if it gets you lynched like it probably will me lol.

As far as Michael's "dare to be different" speech, I fundamentally agree with the need for different opinions and how anyone who has good theories and interesting information shouldn't be afraid to stick out in fear that it will get them lynched. Personally, as a villager, my goal is to see the villagers win --- even if I die in the process. If I had a special role like the seer in this game and had an opportunity to reveal myself if I had identified a wolf and thought it could shift the game in favor of the villagers winning, I'd do it. The villagers need any kind of useful information that they can find, and often finding the first wolf leads to the death of the rest. Until the first wolf is found, the most active and intelligent villagers end up just targeting one another anyway. And it would be frustrating for the seer to just die in the night before they were able to help contribute.

But I still disagree with this "group think" idea of the events of last round being proposed by Deetster, Jackie and I jumping on board, and then the majority just going with the flow to keep the target off their back. I think the way we chose to lynch last round was a culmination of ideas based on ways we've tried first round lynches in the past games. Last game, for instance, we had two weeks to decide the first lynch and half-had a posting/protection game seal the fate of the first lynch. This game's first lynch idea seemed far more logical and better for the overall well-being of the village. And I'd personally hope a similar method is used to determine first lynches in future games --- even if this game ends and we find out that wolves were involved in it.

I think someone (Deetster?) already mentioned this, but I think that looking at those who voted Bryan and those who didn't isn't the greatest way to determine wolves regardless of if we're suspicious for people as far as pro-lynching or anti-lynching. Not everyone had the opportunity to vote before the majority was reached. The wolves and sorcerers knew that Bryan wasn't one of them and could have easily seen that the majority was going to be reached for Bryan and chosen not to vote for him to keep the target off their backs.

Maybe it's just me and I like to overthink (which was very evident last game when I was fully convinced Kenya was a sorcerer/wolf because her logic didn't make much sense to me and then I came up with a theory that she was a wolf and voted to lynch fellow wolf Mandie to keep the target off her back until the end, which Bryan then posted and confirmed my thoughts, even though Bryan was more obviously a wolf/sorcerer due to the way he voted), but I always assume the wolves are playing a smart, calculated game and that taking things at face value often isn't the best approach. Just because someone voted to lynch a villager, that doesn't mean they're likely a wolf. Even with wolves, if we ever get that lucky and someone chooses to lynch one, it's very possible that other wolves could foresee the outcome of the lynch and jump on board to lynch their fellow wolves if they have the best opportunity to advance and win the game for the wolves rather than all being grouped together and losing for that reason.

Like Michael, I'm grouping my thoughts about who to lynch and why and should come up with another post in an hour or so about my ideas for lynching this round.

I think everyone throwing theories on HOW they think a wolf would be.. is how they think they would act as a wolf.. but when you are a wolf it's completely different. You don't want to risk voting for your fellow wolf to save yourself, I just don't think anyone would risk it. Sure it could be smart but at the same time it could be dumb too. I don't get why a wolf would want to help the village. We've had people in the past defend a wolf and not know it and then get blamed for being another wolf.. shit like that is bound to happen, so you can almost rely on that when you are a wolf.

When I agree with something that someone else says, it's because I honestly feel that way too. Not because they are influencing me and I"m just jumping on the bandwagon with them and have no opinion of my own. That's where it can be difficult sometimes because I'll think something and then someone or more than one person has already stated that same thing, so in the past I just wouldn't say anything, which caused people to think I was a wolf, so I have tried hard to just say what I want to say even if I am repeating something someone else already said.

But I am glad that Michael! finally posted because now I understand better of why he didn't want to lynch the first round. Also his post does tend to make him not seem wolfy to me.

Kenya wrote:

I think everyone throwing theories on HOW they think a wolf would be.. is how they think they would act as a wolf.. but when you are a wolf it's completely different. You don't want to risk voting for your fellow wolf to save yourself, I just don't think anyone would risk it. Sure it could be smart but at the same time it could be dumb too. I don't get why a wolf would want to help the village. We've had people in the past defend a wolf and not know it and then get blamed for being another wolf.. shit like that is bound to happen, so you can almost rely on that when you are a wolf.

I'd risk it. I don't think that a wolf would come out of nowhere and just accuse another wolf of being a wolf, but if two of the main targets are wolves, then it makes sense for them to accuse one another of being a wolf like Cam and Morris did in the 3rd game to try to save themselves.

Back to Michael's post, as far as the grouping, it's necessary that there is a group of people voting together to assure a lynch each round. Because if everyone states their own opinion and votes the way that they truly think is the smartest, then we're almost never going to have a majority for a lynch, meaning the wolves will not be lynched and will win. So for those encouraging no lynches and trying to place doubt in the group lynching process, this is why I'd lean towards them being wolves. There can be different opinions, but there needs to be compromise in the end.

I'm going to go through all the names and determine what I think.

----

I'd say these are the groups, for me at least:

Initial Pro-Lynch Group
Brant
Deetster
Jackie
Kenya
Mandie
PhocQ

I look at two of Pete's posts over the first two pages of day one, and I honestly can't understand why he wasn't included as part of the pro-lynch group and why people keep saying that he was against lynching. He never stated that he was against lynching, just said that he would do what the majority wanted but mostly stated he was in favor of lynching just like the other people on the list.

Pete wrote:

I think that we should look at who has been least active over the last game, that way we give the people who are new a chance to play and take out someone who hasn't been as active. Just a thought. I really hate this first round lol
also, Cam, I wouldn't necessarily agree with that as last game neither Mandie nor Termy were that active and they were the wolves, just a thought

Pete wrote:

I think that the only thing from past games that should even be looked at is how active people were, at least only for this first vote.

Those "Wavering"
Dogdude84
Tiffani

Those "Controversial"
Dragontear
Michael!

Those "Neutral"
Dragonldy640
Termy

---

DogDude84 wrote:

I think the key to being a wolf is not changing your previous game's play style. I can't really speak for myself because I seem to change how I play this game constantly, and it always gets me killed. BUT just a thought.

Ex) Mandie was a good wolf because she's more of an observer and doesn't post as much as other players. She didn't change that when she was given a wolf role.

I do think that Dogdude made what might be, in my opinion, the best quote of the game to date. Because one thing that I look at while looking for wolves is how someone can play how they typically play in a way that will help the wolves. This is why I thought PhocQ was the wolf last game, although it turns out he was the seer, because he was being random and fun and coming up with ideas that didn't really help the villagers until it was revealed that he was the seer. So it makes sense to me and also explains why he thinks Michael's possibly the seer this game because he seems to be mirroring the strategy of making sure there is enough wolf suspicion for him to not be killed over the night while also posting just enough to keep himself from being lynched.

As far as lynching, while we're getting absolutely nothing affirmative out of Termy, I'm leaning towards the judgment that he isn't the wolf and shouldn't be lynched this round because I really do think he'd defend himself more and do more to try to fit in. We made a mistake letting him last so long last round and may be making the same mistake this game, but I'd still say we shouldn't lynch him unless there isn't anyone else suspicious at all and we want to keep people around who contribute information.

I don't think that Michael is likely a wolf either because if he's going to play a controversial game (or at least go against a big group like he's been doing), I don't think he'd do it unless he knew that he'd be around to post and defend himself and try to gather support. I am leaning towards him being genuine.

So...with the two main candidates who people are talking about lynching, I don't necessarily agree with either one of them (although I'd be more in favor of lynching Termy than Michael). But there doesn't seem to be enough opposition or accusation to me at this point for either of them to likely be wolves, and I think we really need to analyze and look at other potential candidates. It's just a question of if we want to take out those who aren't active and aren't contributing because we have nothing to go off or if we want to potentially start turning on more active participants. I'll post more soon, but like I've said, I'm most in favor of Termy but am looking closely at the past two days to see if anyone else catches my attention.

Potential Targets

Dragonldy640: I guess she would be my top candidate to lynch just because she's been so under the radar. It's similar to past games, but I can't get a vibe either way.

Michael and Termy: I stated my reasons why I'm leaning towards Michael and Termy being innocent above.

DragonTear: I think he's still figuring out this game, but he's becoming more active. I can't really make a judgment either way, but impulsively don't get the feeling that he's a wolf. I could be wrong for sure on this one, though.


May or May Not Be Wolves

Mandie: She established herself in the pro-lynch group early in this game, which is different from past games where she's floated under the radar.

Tiffani: Like Cam, she's sort of in the middle and it's hard to tell what she's thinking.

Deetster: He's usually got the most complicated logic out of anyone in these games, and I could see the "safe list" as his way of getting a group of 6 protecting the wolves and sorcerer each round and thinking that it would get enough support to draw those wavering in each round to assure the wolves' safety. I don't think he's ever been a wolf, but he'd be able to implement a wolf's strategy into his own very well since he's usually lynched for being suspicious anyway.

PhocQ: He's been less active, less fun than past games. It may be because there isn’t as much time to come up with random games, but at the same time, he does seem more under the radar. I thought about Michael being the seer before he mentioned it, so I agree with his logic.

Dogdude84: Again, he's acting similar to past games sort of sitting in the middle, and you can't really tell. I really like his above statement about roles, though.


Least Likely Wolves

Kenya: Last game, I really thought she was suspicious based on little inconsistencies that she was saying that I misinterpreted. This game, I just looked through the thread and saw how she initially seemed against past game/activeness voting and then lynched Bryan for that reason! But I think her transition of thoughts makes more sense thinking about it, and she seems genuine to me.

Kenya wrote:

But anyway I think its tough to determine what role someone is by their activeness.. they could change how they are acting or keep the same even if they are a different role. This game has too many ways to view it to really base it on activeness.

But I do not think we should use past games to base off of this game, some of us could potentially have different roles this game, so that is not really fair to base past games in this one.

Kenya wrote:

I do feel it would be wise to lynch Bryan.. for all the reasons already stated.. he's very good at making himself look innocent.. so good that maybe he is innocent but we're so paranoid that he isn't.. that we can't help ourselves and the only way to solve that is to possibly lynch him right away and not have to worry about it the entire game lol.

Kenya wrote:

So that doesn't put the rest of the people that didn't want to lynch at first in the clear, just because Bryan was a villager. We had nothing to go on and two names were thrown out, I picked one to role with because I felt he COULD be a wolf/sorcerer and I felt that he rarely comes around anyway so if we were going to lose a villager, it was smarter to lose one that isn't around much because they wouldn't be helpful anyway. Also we don't know if Pete is a villager or not, he could have had a role, we won't know till the game is over sadly.

Jackie: In the past games, I thought her activeness and thoughts were incredibly smart and potentially suspicious and came to really trust her as the games went on. This game, I don't seem to get that suspicious vibe from her although that's just impulsive. But I think she's less likely to be a wolf.

Brant: I know I'm not a wolf.

So, just to sort of shake things up and since we have a little bit of time before the vote, I'll throw the idea out there about potentially lynching Dragonldy just to get reactions.

While I also appreciate the fact Michael finally posted I'm not ruling anyone out just because they used 500 or more words in their post. I needed 3 cups of coffee to get through that. :p

Just kidding, Michael, nice to see you!

But seriously, I think the gist of it was Michael telling us why he didn't vote to lynch (which is muy easy to parade around now since we know in retrospect that Bryan was innocent) and why we need to think independently.

I can only speak for myself when I say I am and have always had my own thoughts, ideas and opinions and if I happen to agree on something I have reasons for that. I have played what - 4 games with most of you? I guess it's unusual to keep playing the same game over and over with the same people but we do get to know each other's styles pretty well that way and I think it gives us a bit of an advantage. At least I hope it does. We also see patterns which we don't want to repeat. The ideas about keeping more active people around because how else are we going to figure this out - well a lot of it stems from last game but it's also common sense. If we leave all the quiet lurkers in the game, even if they're innocent, what's going to happen?

So, besides saying we need to think independently (which I think all of us have advocated all along and it's really kind of a "duh" for me) are you saying you want to not lynch again, Michael? I'm honestly trying to get through to your bottom line here and if that's still your theory I guess I'm interested in it. I have my own opinions, yeah, but maybe keeping more villagers until we do know what's happening is the way to go. I have always always been under the premise that the wolves will push for a no lynch because that's the only way they can be killed. It has always made sense to me. But I can see the other side of it - if we lynch a villager we're just one more down. I'm honestly not feeling Termy as a wolf, either, but I really wanted him to defend himself and he did a sucky job of it. Last time he convinced me he wasn't by not voting for Deet to save himself. LOL it's funny now that I look back on that since Deet got killed anyway and Termy came out smelling like a rose.

So, I'm going back through Pete's posts to see if any of his words can help us. I see that Brant has done this while I've been typing but, anyway.... Since Pete is the person who was killed I thought maybe we could learn something from his words (I actually was hoping you guys would read through mine last time after I was killed and especially look at the lovers' theory but you didn't :p ). Anyway, I figured why not just post all his quotes in one thread. Brant posted the first couple. Here are the rest...


I believe he was initially against a lynch:

Pete wrote:

I've always supported the no-lynch on the first day, but no one ever agrees so I've given up pursuing it but I would definitely support it as I would always as I completely agree with Michael's logic.

Anyone have the time to look and see who the least active people were from the last games? Then we can figure out who from them hasn't been that active thus far in this game.

But when it was pointed out that there was no night reveal he changed his position:

Pete wrote:

yeah the role reveal is going to make things more complicated and hopefully the seer and bodyguard both help us make things work out for us villagers better.

I honestly cannot remember if I've ever played a mafia game or other similar where we didn't lynch someone in the first round but I just feel that we wouldn't risk losing a villager in the first day and the first night kill would maybe give us a direction to go in, plus the seer and bodyguard choices could help us out as well, so we will have something to go on.

Then a joke, lol:

Pete wrote:

I say we eliminate someone on the Team Edward side instead lol

anyways, on a serious not, I think we need to come up with a way to vote if we are going to lynch someone, the sooner we do it the sooner night round 1 comes up so lets figure out what we wanna do.

And then why he isn't pushing for a no-lynch anymore:

Pete wrote:

I am still completely in favor of basing the lynching on avtiveness/past games but am also in favor of no lynch if people agree that is a good move, at this point I'm not sure it is a good move but who really knows what is or isn't a good move until after it is over with.

I used to always push for a no-lynch but I won't do that anymore cause so many people here have pointed out how they are completely against that and with the role reveal situation this game I'm not sure it is a good idea to not lynch, we need to be able to figure out who is what to help narrow down our list of who the wolves could be.

To me the people I'd look at closest are: Termy, Bryan and Dragonldy. Reasoning is this: Termy and Bryan have both played as wolves and/or sorcerers and have always played really low-key or hard to figure out so taking them out first round might be a better move. As for Dragonldy, she isn't as active as others, that is my main reasoning behind her though I feel she does try to contribute so I think I would say Bryan would be a better choice for first to go.

But then explained that he wasn't really pushing either way:

Pete wrote:

I just realized that I missed some post earlier, people are saying I'm pushing for a no-lynch and I never pushed for it, I said I would support it as I would every game cause I feel that we always lose a villager more times than not the first round so lets use the night rounds to help us figure things out. Lynching someone just to lynch someone doesn't help us in the long run unless we have a reason to go for someone or we luck out and get the right person.

I'm not pushing for a lynch or a no-lynch, I'm pushing for us to come up with the right decision for this round that'll help the villagers win. What the right decision is, I don't know, but I hope we make it the right one.

Then was all on board with the lynch:

Pete wrote:

at this point I think the best move is to lynch someone, because of the role reveal and there is enough people who are against not lynching that I just don't feel it is worth pursuing at all. Let's lynch someone, but who? lets start discussing who we feel is a good enough person to lynch and move on from the no-lynch or lynch, cause it is getting us nowhere.

For me, the two people I feel would be a good first lynch are: Bryan + Termy. That is my first gut instinct, not sure if I'm right with either but I feel that Bryan plays this game really good and Termy got way too far last game, so those two are the two I suspect the most at this point.

And more of why:

Pete wrote:

the thing with Bryan is he is really good at making you think there is no way he is a wolf when he is. Same with being a sorcerer so that is why I feel he is someone to watch out for. I'm not saying he's definitely the one I want to lynch this round, same with Termy, just they are thoughts at this point and I want other people to counter my opinions to help come up with a decision.

Regarding Termy, the reason I am worried about him is because of how inactive he is, like he'll always show up but is never that active in discussions and won't post a whole lot that is helpful, and for this reason is part of the reason that the wolves almost won last time.

and more:

Pete wrote:

I agree with Brant that we need to get going on this. I'm going to a friends for the next two days and not sure how much internet access I'll have until Monday evening so before I leave today I will be voting, so more people please come online and give some more discussion before I vote. I'm still not sure but it is between Termy and Bryan for sure.

more:

Pete wrote:

alright so Bryan it is.

I vote to lynch Bryan

My vote is completely open and I know we have a couple more days to talk here. I may change it or just remove it but for now I'm just going to keep it until I decide differently.

Also, I just looked up our deadline: DEADLINE: 27 September 23:59 EST

I was thinking about this for future voting it might be good if it didn't end just after we reached a majority but we could still change up until the deadline if we wanted. It would have been helpful to see what people would have done if the board wasn't locked right after the majority was reached last time. Just a thought.