Season 7 - Winterland - Day 3

Okay, I understand what you are saying and maybe the Grinches did go after Santa last round, just in case. That makes sense to me.

I also understand what you are saying about Cindy Lou. I guess I'm just more in favor of investigative roles like Santa and Cindy Lou trying to use their powers of persuasion before revealing themselves since we need them to survive for as long as possible.

After reading and receiving feedback, I think I have sorted out a few people in my head - between who I think is more likely and who is least likely to be evil.

For now my vote is going back on derBmoose

I think the board must be going crazy or something because I just saw Jackie's post, refreshed and it was gone, refreshed again and it was back with the original time. Or maybe I'm going crazy?

I agree with Jackie in that it's very likely an evil role voted for Pete. After DragonSnow said Pete was evil, it was obvious that Pete would be sent to the Ice Jail. So evil roles would want to look clear and jump onto that vote since the people who don't jump onto the votes for evil roles are usually looked at most suspiciously. The vote for Pete went so fast that the evil roles might not have been online or might have been trying reverse psychology, but it's likely one or maybe both of the remaining Grinches did vote for Pete, I think, if they were online.

Another thing we should look at is Pete's behavior. Why did he defend Tiffani so much? Obviously he knew whether she was good or evil when he defended her. I'm assuming this was to throw us off and make Tiffani look either more suspicious if he was sent to Ice Jail and determined guilty (like he was) or make him look less suspicious if we sent Tiffani to Ice Jail and she was determined innocent. Knowing Pete and how he played before, I think it's likely that someone who was pushing for Tiffani to go the first round is also evil and Pete was trying to vote separately to disassociate himself from them. At the point Pete started protecting Tiffani, Kenya and Merry Chrismoose were the two main people pushing for Tiffani. So I think those two need to be looked at closely. (But not ignoring everyone else, as Pete could also have been trying reverse psychology).

Kenya: Again as Jackie (yay for having a clear person to compare my thoughts with) pointed out, I think the only way that Kenya is an evil role is if she's playing a compltely non-standard, brilliant game. I suppose revealing that she had the Ornament and pledging to give it to Jackie in the first place could have been done to make herself look clear, along with placing the first vote for Pete. If so, when DragonSnow revealed that Pete was evil, then she HAD TO give DragonSnow the ornament or it would've cast a huge degree of suspicion on her. So if she had an evil role, then that makes sense why DragonSnow wouldn't have been abducted because it would've given reason to suspect her. At the same time, wouldn't she have eliminated anyone else? I would think so, and that's why I'd have to say that Kenya isn't as high in my suspicion list as she would be otherwise. Because for the evil roles to just not abduct anyone in order to make Kenya seem more clear but hurting the evil roles overall by giving them more people in the game and more good roles to keep alive doesn't make sense to me.

Merry Chrismoose: So that brings me to Merry Chrismoose. I've never seem him as evil like he's never seen me as good, but I'm trying to imagine him as an evil role and think he'd be just as active as ever, aggressive (since he was in the past) but in maybe a little subtler way, and attempting to play as similar as he usually does while incorportating elements into his playing style that would help the evil roles. So when I see him constantly commenting about the good roles and if they have anything to tell us (which I believe he's done several times all 3 days), that adds a little bit of suspicion to him in my mind.

I also felt like, last round, there was an odd amount of pressure on a Jackie-Tiffani connection versus a Brant-Tiffani connection, largely from Merry Chrismoose. At least I think Merry Chrismoose accused Jackie and pressured her to fully justify her thought process concerning Tiffani while I don't think I was even asked or pressured about why I defended Tiffani? That just felt weird to me, and one theory I can think of is that the evil roles think those innocent will look at me more as being generally "clear" since it's unlikely that I'd be evil three games in a row. PLUS it's unlikely Tiffani and I would be evil again together, or now, that Pete and I would be evil again together. So idk if I'm actually making any sense at all, but it felt weird to me that there was pressure on Jackie-Tiffani last round. Then Pete turns out to be evil. Like Jackie, I defended Tiffani with Pete. Why did the pressure get dropped from me completely when, if anything, I would think that there would be more pressure on me rather than just dropping the entire accusation completely since it was on Jackie-Tiffani, and then Jackie was cleared...

Merry Chrismoose wrote:

Of course I am not clear on Brant and Tiff either, I still feel like they might be working together, but then again that I am starting to chalk up to first round paranoia and it's fading a little.

Merry Chrismoose wrote:

I also tend to agree with Brant's, but he has always been evil in any game I have played with him, and I think I have a bias, lol.

Merry Chrismoose wrote:

Kenya I tend to agree with and vice versa, I sometimes wonder if that is a latch-on type deal, but she was the first to cast a vote for Pete... so I dunno there either, it could be that she just didn't want to jump ship once Pete was revealed.

Merry Chrismoose wrote:

I agree with the vote for Cam as well, we haven't heard from him much either. It was either him, you, or Mandie for my vote, being at the top of my list of people I would like to hear more from. I find myself oddly put at ease about you by your single post, I think it might be a sort of mob mentality building up, by agreeing with Kenya and all, I have found us doing that a lot as well, and I do trust Kenya's logic the most in this game.

So...if either of the pair of Kenya-Merry Chrismoose are evil, then I do think it's Merry Chrismoose again still latching onto Kenya and trying to make her trust him so that she will support him down the road, which I mentioned last round. I'm thinking about putting my vote in that direction later today.

But for now, I vote to send Phoc for Ice Jail. Yes, I think that he's fun and adding something to the game to make it more interesting in a small way with his posts like the one he's made this round, but I feel like he should at least be attempting to read more of the thread. By letting him make a post or two every round without ultimately contributing anything, we're possibly making a huge mistake. So Phoc, I am pressuring you to find a way to read the thread more and contribute your thoughts. If you have internet for 5 minutes a day, could you copy the pages into a word processor and print them with small font? Or...something. I could very well retract this vote later, but I feel like it's necessary to hear from at least everyone and gather some more information before placing a vote.

Deadline: DAY 3 29 December 2010 23:59EST
Schedule:
22nd, 23rd, 24th until approximately 3pm EST Discussion is available
24th to 26th until late evening approximately 7PM EST Locked thread
26th evening to 29th December Discussion. Lynch must be made by the 29th

If you have any questions about the schedule. Please pvt me!! I know its a lot of start and stop between this time but hang in there guys as I am sure you all want to be around family and friends and or loved ones at this time.


Votes: 10 Alive Majority is 6 ((remember if 6 is reached before deadline night will begin))

3 Vote of 6: Caroling Cam - Kenya TheRednosedReindeer, Dasher Deetster, Tiffani Tree
1 Vote of 6: DragonSnow - Bah HumPhoc
2 Votes of 6: Merry Chrismoose - Merry Mandie, Jackie Frost
1 Vote of 6: Bah HumPhoc - Ghost of Christmas Brant

Pending Votes:
Caroling Cam, DragonSnow ((DT)), Merry Chrismoose

Hey everyone! Zoiks a lot happens overnight and early morning when a new round goes up, haha. I think we're pretty clear that DS is SC, since he got JF for us. I wanna throw a vote on Kenya to see her defense of the accusation that she could have given DS the ornament to make herself not look like a grinch. Imo it's a smart move to throw any suspicion off her trail, and thus seems like a grinch move.

And since I have votes on me, I'll go ahead and defend. I actually didn't realize Kenya was the first vote on me, and me voting her isn't reflective of that. It's because of the ornament, which could mean she's good and did a good thing, or the opposite devious type thing.

Off of that... I have been trending more toward voting patterns to see what I should base my vote off, so I may very well switch my vote to Tiff later on, because she is trying to create a snowball affect on me (third to vote me, hoping more would quickly follow).

Good morning everyone! I slept in.. haven't slept in for such a long time, I have 7 days off from work. I'm so excited!

Now down to business.. We all know that Jackie is innocent.. but yet she defended Pete a lot last round and I know for a fact is wrong about me. Therefore it makes me feel she could be wrong about other people. So it makes me hesitant to go after Chrismoose and I'm explaining that right now.

But on the flip side.. I know the reason I didn't say I felt Brant was suspicious and what not last round with the whole him defending Tiffani situation.. is it wasn't done in the same way that Pete and Jackie were doing it. That's why I personally didn't mention Brant. I don't know about Chrismoose but him and I seemed to be on the same page but yet Jackie doesn't seem to understand my side of the situation. Which is surprising since it's exactly the same thing but just reversed.. she's explained why she wanted to wait and I explained why I voted for Tiffani and I retracted my vote as I stated I would for Tiffani when she showed up. I am really glad that Tiffani finally understood where I was coming from. Also Brant was the first one to mention Pete's behavior on day one and I kept that in mind and kept watching anything he did say and that is why I voted for him originally on day 2, now when it comes to DragonSnow.. honestly if I was him and Santa Clause and I found out that someone was evil, I would for sure tell everyone because remember back when Tiffani was the Seer and she found out Jackie was evil and she didn't tell us.. she ended up being killed anyway and I don't think it's wise to keep it to yourself. Jackie you yourself told TIffani that she should have revealed that you were evil just in case. SO I don't understand why you are almost getting mad at DragonSnow for revealing his role when it was for the good of our side. So I don't see why it's a big surprise that DragonSnow would reveal it after you basically told everyone they should if they find an evil role. Also people kept suspecting DragonSnow as evil so why would anyone listen to him if he didn't reveal his role?

Of course Cam you are gonna vote for me after I voted for you, that doesn't surprise me and honestly I don't care. I know I'm an elf and if everyone wants to put me in ice jail just to narrow down the field of possible suspects that's fine with me. But on the flip side I know some people in this game feel that I"m not suspicious and I"m not sure why some think I am. I feel like the grinches probably still went after DragonSnow in the thoughts that maybe I would pass the ornament to Jackie since I told EVERYONE that I would. But obviously I decided against that because DragonSnow has an important role and giving him one more chance at clearing someone or possibly finding someone else is what was needed. But as Brant pointed out, why on earth would I just not kill anyone??? That is just silly, if I was a grinch, I'd rather do any means to get rid of the roles that could help identify me or the other grinch. But really why would I give the ornament to santa clause and not kill anyone. First off why wouldn't I break the ornament.. I don't understand why I wouldn't if I was evil or why I wouldn't give it to Jackie to make her believe I"m innocent and kill Santa Clause, now that would have been the smart thing to do, if I were evil. But obviously the evil roles didn't know I was going to give the ornament to Santa Clause. Hence why they took a risk at seeing if I did.

Edit: I wrote all of this before Cam's second post there..

Ghost of Christmas Brant wrote:

Kenya: Again as Jackie (yay for having a clear person to compare my thoughts with) pointed out, I think the only way that Kenya is an evil role is if she's playing a compltely non-standard, brilliant game. I suppose revealing that she had the Ornament and pledging to give it to Jackie in the first place could have been done to make herself look clear, along with placing the first vote for Pete. If so, when DragonSnow revealed that Pete was evil, then she HAD TO give DragonSnow the ornament or it would've cast a huge degree of suspicion on her. So if she had an evil role, then that makes sense why DragonSnow wouldn't have been abducted because it would've given reason to suspect her. At the same time, wouldn't she have eliminated anyone else? I would think so, and that's why I'd have to say that Kenya isn't as high in my suspicion list as she would be otherwise. Because for the evil roles to just not abduct anyone in order to make Kenya seem more clear but hurting the evil roles overall by giving them more people in the game and more good roles to keep alive doesn't make sense to me.

Despite my earlier posts, which were mainly me "thinking out loud" I actually agree with you about Kenya and think that even if she was "forced" to pass the ornament to Santa, she would still have tried to kidnap someone else. It makes no sense that she wouldn't.

Caroling Cam wrote:

And since I have votes on me, I'll go ahead and defend. I actually didn't realize Kenya was the first vote on me, and me voting her isn't reflective of that. It's because of the ornament, which could mean she's good and did a good thing, or the opposite devious type thing.

Off of that... I have been trending more toward voting patterns to see what I should base my vote off, so I may very well switch my vote to Tiff later on, because she is trying to create a snowball affect on me (third to vote me, hoping more would quickly follow).

There is Cam again.. not reading everything and just randomly posting

Kenya, you need to read everything also, lol. Especially where I said why I don't suspect you as much now and why.

It seems to me you are spending a lot of energy arguing still about me defending Tiffani when it really becomes a moot point now...since Pete is evil and in jail and I am innocent and alive. Maybe it's just that you want me to understand you...I don't know. But, I don't think that matters as far as the game goes anymore.

Also, the situation with Tiffani was completely different because she never really tried to get anyone to vote me. Actually she didn't at all. And then I killed her MUAHAHAH so that was a bad thing for the town, lol.

In DT's case, he could have used a little bit of finesse and tried to give reasons to vote Pete but he didn't even try. Maybe it sounds like I'm trying to blame him after the fact where it really doesn't matter but I really do think people with good roles should think about it a little more before just flat out saying, "Oh, btw I'm _____ and so and so is guilty. Let's get them!"

At least TRY to convince us without revealing. At least then they could possibly protect their identities so the Grinches wouldn't know exactly who to go after. Also, it would give us a little more time to discuss and perhaps gain valuable information.

I agree that if that didn't work, DT should definitely point out what he knows so we could jail Pete and not risk losing that info forever should DT be kidnapped in the night.

Make sense?


[edited to correct terminology :p ]

On the other hand, it is good that we can strike DT and myself off the list. It helps narrow it down...and especially since the Grinches haven't been able to do anything to us so far.

Yeah it makes sense Jackie, but think about it he was being accused a lot that round and for him to try to come up with other reasons to vote Pete or to just vote Pete with me wouldn't really convince anyone. And why would people want to vote how he does if he just says lets vote this person because blah blah blah, when people think he's evil and kept being suspicious of him nobody is going to believe him and then if he almost got put in jail and then randomly comes out that he's santa people may not have believed him and just put him in jail anyway. Would have seemed like a possible defense to save himself if he were evil.

I only brought up that tiffani/you situation because of things that were said in this thread by Brant and by you.

Kenya TheRedNosedReindeer wrote:

Caroling Cam wrote:

And since I have votes on me, I'll go ahead and defend. I actually didn't realize Kenya was the first vote on me, and me voting her isn't reflective of that. It's because of the ornament, which could mean she's good and did a good thing, or the opposite devious type thing.

Off of that... I have been trending more toward voting patterns to see what I should base my vote off, so I may very well switch my vote to Tiff later on, because she is trying to create a snowball affect on me (third to vote me, hoping more would quickly follow).

There is Cam again.. not reading everything and just randomly posting

BTW I kind of thought the same thing. It's a bit frustrating the Cam doesn't ever seem to know what's going on....but maybe he is just faking that, lol. It almost makes me want to vote him...but I tend to believe he is just being clueless.

You also defended Pete a lot and he turned out to be evil.. you couldn't see what Brant and I saw with his behavior.. you just seem a little off this game Jackie.. I'm not sure why it's just kinda weird lol. I'm glad to know you are innocent though so I don't have to think about it lol

DT, I hope you don't take offense to my comments - it's not against you, personally, just what I perceive to be helpful advice for any good power roles we have left.

Hopefully, even if you do take offense, you will not play personally and will do what is best for the good guys this round...even if Kenya thinks my opinion is useless.

LOL Jackie, I don't think your opinion is useless.. it's just your opinion is a lot different this game than I've seen it in the past and I don't mean because it's different than mine lol

Okay, Kenya, but I can be wrong. Just as we all can. Take the example of last wolf game where we both incorrectly sided with Brant. Even though I was wrong about him, I was correct about Tiffani, even though no one agreed with me.

Yeah I get what you are saying.. lol at us blindly trusting Brant. Hopefully we aren't doing the same thing this game.

It's my days off.. and of course I"m starting to get sick.. wtf.. this is so not fair!

Anyway lets see here..

We got Cam randomly coming on not really paying attention to what is going on and throws a vote at me even though others don't find me that suspicious..

Then we have Mandie who normally doesn't vote so quickly but yet she is this round.

Then we have Phoc who comes on and votes for Santa Clause.. like wtf? Is he just asking us to vote him out or something?

Yes, and even though I was defending Tiffani last round, it wasn't that I was sure she wasn't evil. And now that I have a different opinion of you, I can understand it a little more. At the time, it was something to consider as to why you might be not be innocent, among other things I saw...but now I feel I can relax about you a little more (though never completely because I think it's dangerous unless someone is really cleared).

I feel like this round we really have a lot more information that can help us and I really think we have narrowed things down a lot - of course mostly due to Santa. /end lovefest]

Deadline: DAY 3 29 December 2010 23:59EST
Schedule:
22nd, 23rd, 24th until approximately 3pm EST Discussion is available
24th to 26th until late evening approximately 7PM EST Locked thread
26th evening to 29th December Discussion. Lynch must be made by the 29th

If you have any questions about the schedule. Please pvt me!! I know its a lot of start and stop between this time but hang in there guys as I am sure you all want to be around family and friends and or loved ones at this time.


Votes: 10 Alive Majority is 6 ((remember if 6 is reached before deadline night will begin))

3 Vote of 6: Caroling Cam - Kenya TheRednosedReindeer, Dasher Deetster, Tiffani Tree
1 Vote of 6: DragonSnow - Bah HumPhoc
2 Votes of 6: Merry Chrismoose - Merry Mandie, Jackie Frost
1 Vote of 6: Bah HumPhoc - Ghost of Christmas Brant
1 Vote of 6: Kenya TheRedNosedReindeer - Caroling Cam

Pending Votes:
DragonSnow ((DT)), Merry Chrismoose

Jackie Frost wrote:

Okay, Kenya, but I can be wrong. Just as we all can. Take the example of last wolf game where we both incorrectly sided with Brant. Even though I was wrong about him, I was correct about Tiffani, even though no one agreed with me.

Enough people agreed with you after you accused her that I was convinced it was going to have to be me or her to give us evil roles a shot. That was scary, and I freaked out. I wonder what would've happened if I didn't and if one of us would've still been the first lynch, but we'll never really know.

Kenya TheRedNosedReindeer wrote:

Yeah I get what you are saying.. lol at us blindly trusting Brant. Hopefully we aren't doing the same thing this game.

You aren't.

So yeah, I agree that we've got the possible evil candidates narrowed down a bit, and I think it makes sense for now at least, to focus on the people who are relatively quiet and possibly acting suspicious while we have the time. Last round ended so quick after all that there wasn't a lot of time for discussion and to hear everyone's thoughts. Of the candidates, I don't actually suspect Cam a whole lot because he seems to be acting so closely to how he usually does. I think that both Mandie and Phoc are more suspicious because they haven't fully elaborated on what they're thinking and how that affected their votes. Phoc's is clearly a joke. I'd like to see what Mandie finds suspicious about Moose since she said she was confused why people were voting for him the first round.

I'm iffy on Merry Chrismoose. If he's evil, it makes sense in my head, but I'm not sure if I'm willing to vote for someone so active like he is until we hear more thoughts from everyone and I see things that help clear some of the more likely UTR evil roles in my head. We do have a few days to get this right after all, so there's no "MUST GET AN EVIL ROLE NOW OR LOSE" desperation at this point.

[quote="Ghost of Christmas Brant"]

Jackie Frost wrote:

I'd like to see what Mandie finds suspicious about Moose since she said she was confused why people were voting for him the first round.

Mandie's change of heart makes me think it's smart to vote for derBmoose...

I don't understand what you are saying Jackie, how does Mandie deciding to vote for Chrismoose make it smart to vote for him? Because you think Mandie is innocent?

I just don't think Mandie would put a name out there all on her own without a reason, especially if she is evil. That's part of it, yes. I don't want to make any wrong assumptions but I just have a feeling. Of course, feelings can be wrong, so I want to read back over some stuff.... *pulls up derBmoose's last 100 posts* lol