Season 7 - Winterland - Day 3

You have

the 22nd from when this is posted. To the 23rd to begin discussion. I will be locking the thread at some point on the 24th, afternoon ish but break officially begins the 23rd.

I will be locking the thread over the Christmas Holidays and will re-open it briefly between I believe the 26th to the 30th. ((I am out of town beginning the 30th to January 3rd approximately you will all be missed greatly!!!))


Good luck!!!

PLAYER LIST
1. Caroling Cam
3. Tiffani Tree
4. Kenya TheRedNosedReindeer
5. Merry Mandie
6. Bah HumPhoc
7. Jackie Frost
9. DragonSnow ((Dragontear))
10. Ghost Of Christmas Brant
11. Merry Chrismoose
12. Dasher Deetster.

In Ice Jail
Day 1: Christmas Dragon ((dragonldy)) - Role: Elf
Day 2: Snowy Pete - Role: Jack Frost

Kidnapped to the Ice Cave
Night 1: No one
Night 2: No one

Deadline: DAY 3 29 December 2010 23:59EST
Schedule:
22nd, 23rd, 24th until approximately 3pm EST Discussion is available
24th to 26th until late evening approximately 7PM EST Locked thread
26th evening to 29th December Discussion. Lynch must be made by the 29th

If you have any questions about the schedule. Please pvt me!! I know its a lot of start and stop between this time but hang in there guys as I am sure you all want to be around family and friends and or loved ones at this time.


Votes: 10 Alive Majority is 6 ((remember if 6 is reached before deadline night will begin))

Pending Votes:
Caroling Cam, Tiffani Tree, Kenya TheRedNosedReindeer, Merry Mandie, Bah HumPhoc, Jackie Frost, DragonSnow ((DT)), Ghost of Christmas Brant, Merry Chrismoose, Dasher Deetster

Are we good or what? So now either the Grinches attempted a no-kill, or the ornament is gone, and I bet I know who got it... all I can really think to do is look towards our still-living wise one...


Oh wise one, what goodies do you have for us this time?

so i think they musta tryed to kill me, and i don't think ill live another round, but i do have the ornament, wich was why i was saved...duh lol, and i checked jackie because for some reason she seemed a little odd, but she is innocent. so we hopefully we can get out a grinch.

Awesome! Nobody was killed and we got Jack Frost! I'm so excited.. now how to start this round off.

First off.. I obviously gave the ornament to DragonSnow because of the results of him accusing Pete. AND by the looks of things it was the best thing we could do. Now it narrows down our field a bit.. yes he'll probably not make it through the next night phase, but at least we know Jackie is innocent and that helps. Also if I were evil, I would have broke the ornament, it would have been silly to give it to Santa Clause and help the Elves if I were a Grinch.

Anyway since every round I've started off a vote.. for now I think I will start my vote on one of the people not sticking out so much..

I vote to put Caroling Cam into the ice Jail.

Of course my vote may change.. but I want to hear what he has to say about this.

i agree with that, now with jackie cleared i think either cam, phoc or deet could be grinches, the others atm don't seem too suspicous or not at the moment. or maybe derbmoose could be playing us, the first to jump on the pete. maybe thinking it would make him less suspicious, or even take it off his back because there was some votes on him on the first round. but that's just a scenario i wanna think him as on our side here at who ville right now lol. but i agree with kenya, but im gonna wait to vote to see what everyone else has to say

Aww, I was hoping you might have been able to make this round easy for us, lol...

Anyways, in light of Jackie being cleared, and assuming the Grinches targeted DragonSnow and all that jazz, we got 8 people who are not cleared. Last round the votes ended up like this:

VOTES:
Snowy Pete, (6/6) - Kenya TheRedNosedReindeer, DragonSnow, Merry Chrismoose, Dasher Deetster, Ghost of Christmas Brant, Tiffani Tree
DragonSnow, (1/6) - Snowy Pete
Merry Chrismoose (1/6) - Jackie Frost


Pending Votes:
Caroling Cam, Merry Mandie, Bah HumPhoc

I do think that the Grinches likely split up their votes. I think it would be really unusual to have both Grinches be among the pending votes, and it would be more likely that they both voted Pete, but not as likely as a split.

Of the three pending votes, I really don't know what to think, because as far as I know, Cam is the only one with a voting record, and I will go back to look at that after I post. Mandie could easily be slipping night actions by, being around a lot and playing under the radar and shifting blame away by flying the white banner. Phoc I can't say because he hasn't posted in a while, but I haven't noticed him log on recently, so I don't know that I could really label him a threat at this point.

Of course I am not clear on Brant and Tiff either, I still feel like they might be working together, but then again that I am starting to chalk up to first round paranoia and it's fading a little. Kenya I tend to agree with and vice versa, I sometimes wonder if that is a latch-on type deal, but she was the first to cast a vote for Pete... so I dunno there either, it could be that she just didn't want to jump ship once Pete was revealed. Deetster has just the right amount of activity to be able to send in a night action and not have to contribute as much (understandably) due to school and stuff, but that could also be used as a sort of free pass.

So after 'thinking out loud', I have no real convictions, but I feel a pressure vote is in order, one that is likely to change:

I vote to send Dasher Deetster to ice jail.


*edited to color the last round votes section*

It seems like we have a pretty solid idea of a nice grouping of people who are innocent, and people should have a good idea of what they need to do with the ornament. This coming night phase will likely be negative as Dragonsnow is saying...I'm thinking later though, the bad ones won't feel comfortable risking taking out elves who are cleared more or less, or have done outwardly positive things for the village, because these people might have the ornament, and they really need to start getting us elves outta the equation, even if it's slightly suspicious ones.

If they do decide to aim for those who are more innocent seeming, then they have a good chance of getting messed up. So we have a high chance of there being a no disappearence, or them taking out of elves who others were suspicious of anyway, making it easier for us innocents. Above all, I think all our best bets are to just do what is obvious. Protect the most likely safe with the ornaments, and lynch those of us (I admit I'm one), who really haven't had solid contributions to the group.

For now, I'm going to agree with Kenya, cause Cam is someone I don't feel neccesarily has done anything profoundly elvish. Of course, there are many options still, but for now I feel completely comfortable voting alongside Kenya, and when in doubt, voting with the person you trust always seems to work well for me, even though people I don't think of that as as useful a strategy as I think it can often be.

I vote to send Cam to the icejail

PS., I just read you post Moose, and I get why you're voting me, cause according to what I think we should be doing, yeah, voting me makes sense as an option too. What I can say is that I won't waver from this plan to send to icejail those who are clearly to me innocent, as well, I will continue to emphatically vote along those obviously innocent. In my opinion, with clever ornament use, unless the grinches are lucky and clever as hell, they are going to be screwed by me+less obvious elves+obvious elves sooner or later.

"I won't waver from this plan to send to icejail those who are clearly to me innocent"

I think it's pretty obvious I meant to say either "not send to icejail", lmfao.

Also, I'm done with finals now, so I'm all good to be active and more thoughful, so that won't be something I'm going to hide behind anymore or later.

i would like to know who cindy lou followed last night, and hopefully they did not follow jackie lol

I agree with the vote for Cam as well, we haven't heard from him much either. It was either him, you, or Mandie for my vote, being at the top of my list of people I would like to hear more from. I find myself oddly put at ease about you by your single post, I think it might be a sort of mob mentality building up, by agreeing with Kenya and all, I have found us doing that a lot as well, and I do trust Kenya's logic the most in this game. I also tend to agree with Brant's, but he has always been evil in any game I have played with him, and I think I have a bias, lol.

Maybe I should change gears here and go with my gut instead of my brain? I feel like I can trust you.

I retract my vote for Dasher Deetster.

Knowing Merry Mandie, I won't pressure vote her, but I will say that I would like to hear more from her and what she thinks about last round, perhaps why she didn't vote for Snowy Pete? I realize the round ended quickly after the reveal and that is likely the reason, but who is on your mind?

I am curious about that too, DragonSnow, I am tempted to call Cindy Lou out of hiding, but then both roles are out in the open and easy pickings, and if we 'miss' this round, it might come back to bite us.


*edited spelling errors.... methinks it's bedtime... lol*

I think Cindy Lou should just stay in hiding, unless she is directly targetted, or someone is trying to claim her role as theirs. If she wants to reveal herself then I guess she should dictate whom accessed whom during different rounds, to prove she's Cindy Lou, and basically, I don't think someone would resort lying about being when things are getting "bad" in terms of them getting votes. That person will undoubtedly be pinned as a bad guy for trying to claim someone elses role, so I think it's safe to say Cindy Lou, try to influence us if you can, if you followed someone to an elf that disappeared, or an ornament holder during a no-disppearence round, definitely, maybe you should speak up in that alternative situation. For me personally I wouldn't say there's anything inherently beneficial here or now to remove the mystique of who Cindy Lou is, unless she feels she has to herself for other reasons, which I'm sure she will if and when the time comes.

Yeah I don't think she should reveal herself unless she follows someone.. and the person they visited or whatever the correct wording is ends up being killed. There is no point revealing right now since it won't tell us anything.. since there was no night kills the last two nights.

Umm.... Yay! ... or something. lol

Sorry guys I really have no idea what's going on other than I guess DragonSnow is Santa. This game is very hard to keep up with when you can only check in for a few minutes each day.

So since I don't know nearly enough about what's going on to do something intelligent, I'll just do something stupid instead.

I vote to send DragonSnow to Ice Jail.


If you are Santa then you can kiss my star of David. I still haven't forgiven you for all those years as a kid when I begged you year after year for the Millenium Falcon to put my Han Solo action figure in. And every f*cking christmas I would cry myself to sleep because I didn't get it.

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh awesome we're all still here, but I think checking Jackie was such a waste

Dragon Snow, if they attempted to kill you last night and failed, then I doubt they can go after you again because usually you are not allowed to kill back to back. So hopefully that means you are safe another night.

I vote to put Caroling Cam into the ice Jail.

lol Phoc, Last round DragonSnow told us that he is Santa and we were able to get rid of Jack Frost.

Okay, I just skimmed through posts so I will go back and read more thoroughly but first a couple of things:

Santa, I am really glad you found Jack Frost and I'm really glad you lived. I thought you might check me last night and, while a part of me wanted you to so that I was cleared....a bigger part of me didn't want you to waste it on me and was hoping you'd check derB or Kenya.

Also, I have never seen such a quick reveal of a role in a game and even though it allowed us to get Jack Frost, why did you have to reveal so quickly? What I mean is, Pete already had a vote from Kenya, you could have given other reasons, placed your vote on him and there is a chance he would have been lynched without your reveal. That way, the bad guys wouldn't know you were Santa. As it is, you are sure to die tonight, which sucks for us.

I implore the others who have good roles to guard them a little better. No offense, Santa. I know you were excited but look at how quickly that round ended. We may have learned a lot from people who didn't want to vote Pete had they not been "forced" to by your reveal. Why would they want to stand out by not voting him once you said who you were?

So, now we all wake up and we are all alive - yay! But, why?

Either we have really stupid Grinches...which I don't think at all. OR something fishy is going on with that ornament. Here's my point:

The Grinches know who Santa is, right? Well, yeah DT could be a liar but I think it's pretty far-fetching to say he is lying, got lucky with his guesses on Peteand I, and the real Santa never stepped up. So, I DO believe in Santa! Given that, the Grinches know Kenya has the ornament and they will figure she is passing it to Santa. So, with the Christmas Angel not able to use her power to save (unless she really didn't use it night 1), why don't the Grinches kill someone else? Like Kenya, for example? She is passing the ornament so she is vulnerable. That's who I would have killed since she was the only person that was guaranteed to be vulnerable last night.

I think there are two possibilities:

1. Kenya pretty much has to pass Santa the ornament because it seems pretty obvious DT is Santa. The Angel hadn't used her power on Night 1 afterall and used it last night.

2. Kenya knew the Grinches would expect her to pass it to Santa and instead passed it to someone else, who the Grinches tried to kidnap. This way we can save Santa on night 3. This would be smartest and I hope Kenya did this.

3. The Grinches didn't attempt a kidnapping.


I am really hoping for option 2. If this is the case, it helps clear Kenya to me. AND also, if this is the case then whoever she passed it to (unless they are bad) can pass it to me, next.

I was out last Friday night and when I came home it was all over. I
think it's highly likely that at least one - maybe two - of the people
who voted Pete are Grinches.

Kenya TheRedNosedReindeer
DragonSnow
Merry Chrismoose
Dasher Deetster
Ghost of Christmas Brant
TIffani Tree

Kenya could be a Grinch and might just be playing a brilliant game. Knowing DT was Santa, if she was a Grinch she would pretty much have to pass him her ornament and save him even if she didn't want to. But then why not kidnap someone else? Did she just want it to appear the Grinches tried to kidnap Santa but she had saved him so no one would suspect her? Also, her early vote for Pete, maybe another ploy to throw people off? She was the first vote for Pete, which she pointed out after Santa's reveal. Why did she do that? Maybe just to remind us later in case we looked at her?

I am also looking at Deet. Something about how Deet's playing this game seems suspicious to me. I am used to seeing him post long, drawn-out theories and be really open and he's been playing much more UTR to me. I know, I know, I shouldn't compare games. But, he was very quick to show up and put his name down on Pete at the end of last round. For someone who we were begging to show up all day - he finally did and posted that he suspects DT or Kenya. Then, within 30 minutes of DT's declaration, he votes. That could be because he knows DT is right and wants to come out on the good side of the vote.

derBmoose is still suspicious for reasons I don't feel like re-posting but adding to that, the fact that he voted for me when I really think others didn't suspect me very much and he was also quick to change with Santa's reveal. Yes, I know that could also mean he is innocent and just wanted to help jail a bad guy.

Cam schmam. He and Mandie are the two people in this game who reveal the least to us. Their posts don't really give us much info, but that's how they always play. I feel that in Cam's case, if he were really a bad guy, he would be more into it.

Phoc, well he could be anything, really. I know he hasn't been able to post much - and I do hope that changes more after Christmas. For now, I think we just don't know enough either way about him. I do think with the limited time you do have to post, Phoc, you could be a little more into it and actually vote for someone other than Santa. I feel like I'm always waiting for you to post because I usually value your opinion, but then you vote for Santa? Okay, it's really hilarious and all but maybe you could now give us the benefit of your usual wisdom.

I didn't really mean to make a list here, but those are my initial thoughts right now. I am going to wait to vote but I am leaning toward Deet or derB right now.

Oh, I just forgot one of my points since it took me so long to post that, lol. Another point against Kenya is that a no-kidnap (sorry, I keep saying kill) for the Grinches could be a way to throw us off of Kenya as a suspect. As I pointed out above, Kenya was pretty much forced to pass her ornament to Santa or explain to all of us why he was kidnapped last night. So, the Grinches should have just kidnapped Kenya. Why didn't they? Perhaps because she is a Grinch, as well?

The "no-kidnap" theory has been passed around lately and maybe the Grinches used it last night for some reason.

IF the Grinches really didn't realize that Santa would probably get the ornament, then I would probably be looking at Mandie or Cam as far as suspects. No offense, but they don't usually seem to be up on the rules or to be paying close attention to the posts. Tiffani also missed the fact that Kenya had the ornament so maybe Tiffani, as well?

Tiffani, maybe you could weigh in on that. For some reason, I don't really suspect you right now but I don't have great reasons as to why, lol. And we all know those gut feellings can be wrong...

Kenya TheRedNosedReindeer wrote:

Awesome! Nobody was killed and we got Jack Frost! I'm so excited.. now how to start this round off.

First off.. I obviously gave the ornament to DragonSnow because of the results of him accusing Pete. AND by the looks of things it was the best thing we could do. Now it narrows down our field a bit.. yes he'll probably not make it through the next night phase, but at least we know Jackie is innocent and that helps. Also if I were evil, I would have broke the ornament, it would have been silly to give it to Santa Clause and help the Elves if I were a Grinch.

Anyway since every round I've started off a vote.. for now I think I will start my vote on one of the people not sticking out so much..

I vote to put Caroling Cam into the ice Jail.

Of course my vote may change.. but I want to hear what he has to say about this.

No, it would have been dumb for you to break the ornament, lol. However, you could have passed it to your fellow Grinch (if you were evil) and just claimed that you knew Santa wouldn't be attacked so you wanted to try to capitalize on that belief and spare him for an extra night. Disregard my post that says I hope you passed it to someone else, lol. Obviously I was skimming and missed this post.

Merry Chrismoose wrote:

Aww, I was hoping you might have been able to make this round easy for us, lol...

Anyways, in light of Jackie being cleared, and assuming the Grinches targeted DragonSnow and all that jazz, we got 8 people who are not cleared. Last round the votes ended up like this:

VOTES:
Snowy Pete, (6/6) - Kenya TheRedNosedReindeer, DragonSnow, Merry Chrismoose, Dasher Deetster, Ghost of Christmas Brant, Tiffani Tree
DragonSnow, (1/6) - Snowy Pete
Merry Chrismoose (1/6) - Jackie Frost


Pending Votes:
Caroling Cam, Merry Mandie, Bah HumPhoc

I do think that the Grinches likely split up their votes. I think it would be really unusual to have both Grinches be among the pending votes, and it would be more likely that they both voted Pete, but not as likely as a split.

Of the three pending votes, I really don't know what to think, because as far as I know, Cam is the only one with a voting record, and I will go back to look at that after I post. Mandie could easily be slipping night actions by, being around a lot and playing under the radar and shifting blame away by flying the white banner. Phoc I can't say because he hasn't posted in a while, but I haven't noticed him log on recently, so I don't know that I could really label him a threat at this point.

Of course I am not clear on Brant and Tiff either, I still feel like they might be working together, but then again that I am starting to chalk up to first round paranoia and it's fading a little. Kenya I tend to agree with and vice versa, I sometimes wonder if that is a latch-on type deal, but she was the first to cast a vote for Pete... so I dunno there either, it could be that she just didn't want to jump ship once Pete was revealed. Deetster has just the right amount of activity to be able to send in a night action and not have to contribute as much (understandably) due to school and stuff, but that could also be used as a sort of free pass.

So after 'thinking out loud', I have no real convictions, but I feel a pressure vote is in order, one that is likely to change:

I vote to send Dasher Deetster to ice jail.


*edited to color the last round votes section*

I disagree that it's likely the Grinches split their votes. That could be the case but it's also highly likely they voted together to try to look innocent. Of course, with the trending seeming to be that the bad guys vote for their fellow bad guys, it seems more likely they vote for themselves than not.

I did notice Phoc logged on during the night phase. Just FYI. This could mean something or nothing, though. I would hate to get into the trap of clearing or accusing based on board activity when people can use AIM just as easily.

I do agree with most of your other thoughts, especially your thoughts on Kenya and Deet. And, actually, this whole post kinda makes me suspect you less.

So I miss a lot in my 9 hours of sleep.

Anyway, yay for no one being abducted by the Grinches. My best guess is that they tried to minimize their losses and couldn't risk the Ornament being passed to someone besides DragonSnow who could give it to DragonSnow the next round. So they went after him just to make sure that he wouldn't get two nights of investigation. Now, since he already admitted that he does have the Ornament and I'm sure they'll read that, he'll be abducted tonight. I suppose the evil roles could be doing some complicated, no-abduction strategy as well (which I just saw in Jackie's post), but I'm very much of the perspective that they'd simply aim to go after Santa Claus in the night and will continue to do so.

So where does that leave us? It's very possible that Cindy Lou could have gathered information by now that likely pinpoints an evil role. The Christmas Angel likely saved someone the first round. We know who has had the Ornament and who they have given it to. We know who Santa Claus is and who has been investigated. So Cindy Lou may be able to start pinpointing some specifics, and if anyone said that they were using their powers on DragonSnow last night, then she probably has a match for an evil role. If she does have a match that seems true like that, then I don't see why she wouldn't reveal herself? If not, then it definitely makes more sense to wait until at least next round to reveal since the Grinches will want to go after the unprotected Santa Claus tonight and can't risk Cindy Lou when they don't even know who she is.

Jack Frost being sent to Jail helps a lot as well, since our powers can't be disabled anymore. I'm confused why, after DragonSnow suggested that he had a good role the first round, Pete/Jack Frost didn't disable him the first night? That would've done a lot against preventing his demise last round. I guess that could suggest the evil roles were choosing not to use their powers to throw us off, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me why they'd do something like that. Jackie being cleared is also good because it narrows the range of suspicion. Plus we still have 3 days to get this right again, so that is a good thing, I suppose.

I just wanted to get an initial post in, and I will post again shortly with more specifics and accusations.

well, I thought it was odd that on night 1, no one died. And although it is true that the Christmas Angel could have saved someone...... can't they only do that once??? Why waste that power on day 1?

So I kind of ruled out that scenerio in my head for that reason.

Day 2, no one dies.... again.... I dont know why no one died on the first night, I was confused. This time, I do agree its plausible that Kenya passed the ornament to DragonSnow to save him this round. But if I were the grinch, I wouldnt have done that.

I didnt vote last round because, the thread was locked. It seems that as soon as DragonSnow confessed that he knew Pete was guilty, yall all jumped on that before I could have gotten the chance. I would have voted for Pete though, for the record.

The person I am most suspcious of ... Is Moosey.

I dont like to throw names around, and if saying that comes back to bite me in the ass so be it.


But my vote is for Moosey!

and i did, hes just being a goof. lol but thats okay. he dident get his action figure cuz he was a BAD BAD LITTLE BOY!!!!.. and he likes it

Merry Mandie wrote:

well, I thought it was odd that on night 1, no one died. And although it is true that the Christmas Angel could have saved someone...... can't they only do that once??? Why waste that power on day 1?

So I kind of ruled out that scenerio in my head for that reason.

Day 2, no one dies.... again.... I dont know why no one died on the first night, I was confused. This time, I do agree its plausible that Kenya passed the ornament to DragonSnow to save him this round. But if I were the grinch, I wouldnt have done that.

I didnt vote last round because, the thread was locked. It seems that as soon as DragonSnow confessed that he knew Pete was guilty, yall all jumped on that before I could have gotten the chance. I would have voted for Pete though, for the record.

The person I am most suspcious of ... Is Moosey.

I dont like to throw names around, and if saying that comes back to bite me in the ass so be it.


But my vote is for Moosey!

Mandie, I tend to think you seem innocent to me after your post, so
thanks for that. I just wonder what it is about Moose that makes you
suspect him? Since I have been suspecting him off and on, I just want to
know your reasons to help me decide whether to vote him or not.

Ghost of Christmas Brant wrote:

So I miss a lot in my 9 hours of sleep.

Anyway, yay for no one being abducted by the Grinches. My best guess is that they tried to minimize their losses and couldn't risk the Ornament being passed to someone besides DragonSnow who could give it to DragonSnow the next round. So they went after him just to make sure that he wouldn't get two nights of investigation. Now, since he already admitted that he does have the Ornament and I'm sure they'll read that, he'll be abducted tonight. I suppose the evil roles could be doing some complicated, no-abduction strategy as well (which I just saw in Jackie's post), but I'm very much of the perspective that they'd simply aim to go after Santa Claus in the night and will continue to do so.

So where does that leave us? It's very possible that Cindy Lou could have gathered information by now that likely pinpoints an evil role. The Christmas Angel likely saved someone the first round. We know who has had the Ornament and who they have given it to. We know who Santa Claus is and who has been investigated. So Cindy Lou may be able to start pinpointing some specifics, and if anyone said that they were using their powers on DragonSnow last night, then she probably has a match for an evil role. If she does have a match that seems true like that, then I don't see why she wouldn't reveal herself? If not, then it definitely makes more sense to wait until at least next round to reveal since the Grinches will want to go after the unprotected Santa Claus tonight and can't risk Cindy Lou when they don't even know who she is.

Jack Frost being sent to Jail helps a lot as well, since our powers can't be disabled anymore. I'm confused why, after DragonSnow suggested that he had a good role the first round, Pete/Jack Frost didn't disable him the first night? That would've done a lot against preventing his demise last round. I guess that could suggest the evil roles were choosing not to use their powers to throw us off, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me why they'd do something like that. Jackie being cleared is also good because it narrows the range of suspicion. Plus we still have 3 days to get this right again, so that is a good thing, I suppose.

I just wanted to get an initial post in, and I will post again shortly with more specifics and accusations.

Your explanation of the Grinches just going for Santa in case he wasn't protected sounds reasonable to me. I do think you giving us that theory does tend to point to you since you thought it up... lol. And I want to point out that it's not impossible that you could be evil AGAIN, no matter how coincidental it may be. Just don't want people ruling you out. Also, I don't know why you think Cindy Lou should reveal herself to us. That seems "wolfy" to me, for lack of a better term.

Jackie Frost wrote:

Ghost of Christmas Brant wrote:

So I miss a lot in my 9 hours of sleep.

Anyway, yay for no one being abducted by the Grinches. My best guess is that they tried to minimize their losses and couldn't risk the Ornament being passed to someone besides DragonSnow who could give it to DragonSnow the next round. So they went after him just to make sure that he wouldn't get two nights of investigation. Now, since he already admitted that he does have the Ornament and I'm sure they'll read that, he'll be abducted tonight. I suppose the evil roles could be doing some complicated, no-abduction strategy as well (which I just saw in Jackie's post), but I'm very much of the perspective that they'd simply aim to go after Santa Claus in the night and will continue to do so.

So where does that leave us? It's very possible that Cindy Lou could have gathered information by now that likely pinpoints an evil role. The Christmas Angel likely saved someone the first round. We know who has had the Ornament and who they have given it to. We know who Santa Claus is and who has been investigated. So Cindy Lou may be able to start pinpointing some specifics, and if anyone said that they were using their powers on DragonSnow last night, then she probably has a match for an evil role. If she does have a match that seems true like that, then I don't see why she wouldn't reveal herself? If not, then it definitely makes more sense to wait until at least next round to reveal since the Grinches will want to go after the unprotected Santa Claus tonight and can't risk Cindy Lou when they don't even know who she is.

Jack Frost being sent to Jail helps a lot as well, since our powers can't be disabled anymore. I'm confused why, after DragonSnow suggested that he had a good role the first round, Pete/Jack Frost didn't disable him the first night? That would've done a lot against preventing his demise last round. I guess that could suggest the evil roles were choosing not to use their powers to throw us off, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me why they'd do something like that. Jackie being cleared is also good because it narrows the range of suspicion. Plus we still have 3 days to get this right again, so that is a good thing, I suppose.

I just wanted to get an initial post in, and I will post again shortly with more specifics and accusations.

Your explanation of the Grinches just going for Santa in case he wasn't protected sounds reasonable to me. I do think you giving us that theory does tend to point to you since you thought it up... lol. And I want to point out that it's not impossible that you could be evil AGAIN, no matter how coincidental it may be. Just don't want people ruling you out. Also, I don't know why you think Cindy Lou should reveal herself to us. That seems "wolfy" to me, for lack of a better term.

I tend to think of what I'd do with roles, either good or evil, and I would definitely have saved someone the first night as the Christmas Angel because it added a key number that gave us three more days to find the first evil role versus two. As an evil role, I'd have gone after DragonSnow last night even knowing he'd probably have the Ornament. It can be looked at like game theory (which we covered in my Operations Research class last semester --- yay). The absolute worst thing for an evil role is having Santa Claus survive multiple more nights. So by the evil roles trying to go after him the last night, they do a great job of eliminating the possibility of Kenya doing something creative with her Ornament that possibly lets DragonSnow survive multiple more nights.

It's also similar to why, as an evil role in your game, I wanted to go after Tiffani the first night after she revealed she was the Prostitute even though she probably would be protected. The good roles can be devestating towards the evil roles in this game, and the evil roles need to get them out at all costs if they want to survive. Just having a night go by where no one ends up being abducted is a lot better long-term than having Santa Claus be able to investigate and clear or pinpoint half the cast as good or evil.

What I also said was that if Cindy has anything definitive that pinpoints an obvious evil role, why would she NOT reveal herself this round? If anyone used their powers on DragonSnow last night (since we know he had the Ornament), then wouldn't that almost definitely pinpoint an evil role? If she doesn't have something that's as definitive, then I said she should hold back until AT LEAST next round. But if she can pinpoint a specific evil role right now, it just seems to make sense to take that information so we'll only have one evil role left that we're dealing with and can factor the newly learned information into our discussion.

I've re-read the thread a few times and am typing something longer now with specific names, and it'll be up in the next hour, but I wanted to get that out there.