Season 7 - Winterland - Day 2

Ohhhhhhhhhhh ok Jackie, you are definitely right, it had to be dragonlady. At the end of Day 1 Thian said
Christmas Ornament Holder: Please do not pass as you will need it for protection tonight.
This comment didnt' make sense to me, but your posting of what Thian said to you makes total sense now. The ornament holder had nothing to do last night, so the only way it could be dropped was because Donna was the holder.

Jackie Frost wrote:

Okay, I am retyping this and hopefully I can actually post it this time.

I had a couple of questions about the ornament last night and went to Thian. I ended up getting really confused because I was wrong in a couple of my earlier assumptions about it but Thian was very patient with me (although he probably secretly wanted to kill me by the time I finally understood) and answered all my questions.

There is only one possibility as to who dropped the ornament and that is Dragonldy. This is why:

1. The original ornament holder was not protected by it on Day 1. They would only be protected by it Night 1 and Day 2. They would then have to pass it on to someone else at the beginning of Night 2, where it would give that recipient protection for Night 2 and Day 3.

OR, if they were a grinch they could destroy it. They could also choose not to pass it or forget to pass it but that would not even happen until Night 2, so it is impossible that someone dropped it Night 1.

IF Dragonldy had it Day 1 (which I believe since I see no other explanation), she gets jailed, then the ornament just "exists" Night 1 with no one to protect. It would then be dropped at the beginning of Day 2, so someone else is allowed to take it.

As Thian stated in his opening, it only protects that recipient for this day - Day 2. They have to pass it tonight - Night 2, to someone else. So, the next recipient (if it gets passed) will have it Night 2 and Day 3 and pass it Night 3.

If you don't believe me, please go ask Thian. In fact, if you have any questions/confusions about roles I would highly encourage you to ask Thian. Nothing is more frustrating than seeing people post how they don't understand how a role/power works in this game when all they have to do is ask the host, lol. :p


[edited typo]

I PMed Thian a few hours ago (before I made my post) to confirm the Ornament rules, but thanks for that explanation. It makes a whole lot of sense now in my head, and I understand why Christmas Dragon probably had it. Hopefully it's in good hands now.

Jackie Frost wrote:

Thanks for posting, Tiffani, and for the detailed explanation of your personal life which you don't have to give, but maybe it'll stop all this nonsense about you actually dropping off the face of the earth for a week in order to appear ... innocent? innocuous? I'm not even sure what?... in a werewolf/grinch game.

I am still not of the opinion the absence was planned, but I do think you lobbied really hard to save her, and I am just grilling for as to why. I think it was far more likely that you saw a win-win opportunity to defend her seeing that she was MIA. Indeed, you stuck out like a sore thumb in doing so. But isn't that a solid defense in itself if things went awry? But now she is still 'free', you are making it sound like I am still choosing to believe the least likely, conspiracy-theory scenario, and you seem pretty positive about her alignment, in spite of the fact that until this round, Tiff had not posted much of anything we could learn much from. Sure we have some retrospect now, but you still vouch for Tiffani's innocence, and on what grounds I still have no clue. My votes last round were basically out of the spite that comes from me not being able to interrogate lurkers. We have no way to prove their guilt or innocence. Tiffani, while normally being active, suddenly fit that category to a "T", so I voted for her. She shows up, and I value her track record better than certain other players, so I change to another lurker, pure and simple. I figured if I am gonna make a mistake, make it in the first round on a player we can't count on to provide us with what we need: information.

We had no information on Tiff yet you defended her because she is your friend outside of the game.

You seem to be falling back on the 'don't criminalize me, I acted this way because we are long-time buddies' defense quite a bit. It is this defense that worries me most because it is the one that is most likely to clear you by giving you such a passionate defense. I am of the opinion that playing the 'friends' card is only likely to get us into hot water by ruling out familiar ties for being 'too obvious'. On the surface it seems like a logical defense, but at it's core it's really just a way to point fingers elsewhere while proving nothing.

Merry Chrismoose wrote:

Jackie Frost wrote:

Thanks for posting, Tiffani, and for the detailed explanation of your personal life which you don't have to give, but maybe it'll stop all this nonsense about you actually dropping off the face of the earth for a week in order to appear ... innocent? innocuous? I'm not even sure what?... in a werewolf/grinch game.

I am still not of the opinion the absence was planned, but I do think you lobbied really hard to save her, and I am just grilling for as to why. I think it was far more likely that you saw a win-win opportunity to defend her seeing that she was MIA. Indeed, you stuck out like a sore thumb in doing so. But isn't that a solid defense in itself if things went awry? But now she is still 'free', you are making it sound like I am still choosing to believe the least likely, conspiracy-theory scenario, and you seem pretty positive about her alignment, in spite of the fact that until this round, Tiff had not posted much of anything we could learn much from. Sure we have some retrospect now, but you still vouch for Tiffani's innocence, and on what grounds I still have no clue. My votes last round were basically out of the spite that comes from me not being able to interrogate lurkers. We have no way to prove their guilt or innocence. Tiffani, while normally being active, suddenly fit that category to a "T", so I voted for her. She shows up, and I value her track record better than certain other players, so I change to another lurker, pure and simple. I figured if I am gonna make a mistake, make it in the first round on a player we can't count on to provide us with what we need: information.

We had no information on Tiff yet you defended her because she is your friend outside of the game.

You seem to be falling back on the 'don't criminalize me, I acted this way because we are long-time buddies' defense quite a bit. It is this defense that worries me most because it is the one that is most likely to clear you by giving you such a passionate defense. I am of the opinion that playing the 'friends' card is only likely to get us into hot water by ruling out familiar ties for being 'too obvious'. On the surface it seems like a logical defense, but at it's core it's really just a way to point fingers elsewhere while proving nothing.

For some reason you continue to ignore what I am saying (and Tiffani is saying) and choose to interpret it in your own way.

I'll RE-POST the points I have already made and hope you will actually read them this time.

1. I did NOT lobby to save her. I posted to explain why I was not voting for her even though many people were. Why are you not pointing out that Kenya actually DID lobby to get votes for her? You seem to be ignoring that.

2. I am NOT positive about her alignment nor have I posted in any way that I am. I have no idea of her alignment but I would like the chance to see her post in the game so I can make a decision as to what I "believe" about her.

3. I have NOT ever vouched for Tiffani's innocence (refer to #2). Please show me any post where I have done so.

4. Tiffani was not in the "lurker" category last round. Lurkers are people who are clearly around yet do not post. Tiffani was not around so she had no way to post. Whether you believe her explanation or not, or whether you believed she was not around last round, you cannot call her a lurker unless you have seen her online and know she is just not posting on purpose.

5. I also value Tiffani's track record. Enough so that with my belief that she would probably return, I didn't want to vote for her and chose to vote for a lurker - like 6 other people did. NOT "another lurker" as you state, but simply a "lurker."

6. I did NOT defend Tiffani because she is my friend. I had knowledge that she had not been online because she is my friend but our friendship was not the reason I defended her absence and wanted to give her a chance to show up and defend herself before taking her out of the game.

7. I have never played the "friend card" in this game. I will vote for anyone who I believe is suspicious. If I feel Tiffani is suspicious - or anyone I deem a friend - I will vote for them. Period.


I still believe your vote for me is retaliation because I voted for you last round. I still find you suspicious and the way you keep mis-interpreting and mis-stating what I have said adds to those suspicions.

It would be nice if someone else would post in the game besides Tiffani, derB, Kenya, Brant and I. Oh, whoops, Pete did make a showing, as well.

But where are Deetster (I know he has studies but he can at least make a post), PhocQ (I know he doesn't have net at home right now and this was posted very late last night (this morning) so he probably hasn't even seen it yet, Dogdude and Mandie?

I hope we hear from everyone at least once by the end of the day.

I too find myself posting my views multiple times because of apparent misunderstandings. You defended her place in the game by not voting for her and stating why, that is defending her in my book. You also made a post in the beginning of the round alluding to the fact that we were 'scared' off the Tiff vote coming back to bite us, once she was revealed to be innocent. The allusion is so strong as to come off as a claim of knowledge to me. You even seemed to ignore my suspicions in my follow-up post of this occurrence, which I will bold. To satisfy what I see in this case and your requests for #3:

Merry Chrismoose wrote:

My vote for you is likely to change, because as you say, these events really do seem out of the realm of reasonable possibilities, yet they are possible.

Jackie Frost wrote:

If you(Kenya) and derBmoose thought it was so strange that Tiffani showed up and votes were retracted why did you not say something at the time? And if you really thought Tiffani showing up was suspicious why not keep your votes on her and keep pushing the vote for her? Possibly because it would make you look bad if she was successfully taken to ice jail and you were the two most adamant about it?

To respond to why I didn't speak up against the switch in votes, it was because Tiff did indeed show up, and while it didn't do a whole lot to shift my suspicions, I felt Tiffani had the vastly superior track record in regards to lurker vs contributor, so I opted to vote for Dragonldy. The choice was not a hard one for me to make.

However, the way you speak about Tiff here makes it sound like you are adamantly positive she would have turned out to be innocent. What makes you think that when she was absent the whole round?

I will admit, I falsely labeled her a lurker, per your definition. I am wiling to re-label the situation as Tiffani was appearing to be a no-show.

These observations are likely to be riddled with misunderstandings as well if you are innocent. This is where I am coming from as well, I only know as much as I can read, nobody is capable of giving the full story, they are going to be filled with holes and incomplete information. You have every right to be suspicious of me for it, just as I for you, but you must at least understand where I am coming from? From where I sit, this is my best lead aside from the others that are on the table, and I am trying to use our day phase to it's best potential.


I, too, hope the contribution levels will be up from last game. That was a nightmare. You must see where I am coming from with my mentality against people who don't post. Now that we have a past round to go off of we can leave that mentality behind a little, but in the first round we have no past actions to go off of, so I felt that whoever wasn't going to be able to contribute was only going to hold us back. You had more explicit knowledge of Tiff's situation than I did, I was just acting on my beliefs that quiet people are deadly people.

Well, I just woke up and as usual, had 3 pages of posts to read through First.... Im going to state my feelings and opinions ......


I am disapointed.

Yall lynched an elf. Someone who is quiet, like myself, yall lynched, and they weren't even evil. That does NOT help us guys... imo.

No one died last night. This doesnt help either. My opinion is that the Grinches did this on purpose. I would be surprised if the Angel saved the ONE person, on NIGHT 1.. that the grinches wanted to kill. Perhaps I am wrong, but thats my opinion.

Maybe I just totally suck at this game, but the only person that acted suspcious in my eyes last round was DragonSnow, and I'll state again.... I dont think this person is a grinch but I agree, they do have a role. Which brings me back to my point..... THIS DOESNT HELP.

I dont feel comfortable voting for someone that probably has a role but maybe not an evil one. I dont feel comfortable voting for quiet people just because yall think they are lurkers and don't help. Yall are likely to do the same thing to me and again, it wont help you. Killing off innocents is never good. I read every comment yall post in this thread and find myself becoming annoyed with some of the stuff yall just so casually throw out there.

Where is Deetster?

This post spent way too long to make with the board going a bit crazy earlier and continually re-loading the index no matter what was clicked.

Snowy Pete wrote:

alright so I'm confused as to why I'm getting a vote Kenya? because Brant had a feeling and every little thing I said was scrutinized and looked at as if said by a grinch. In all actuality you could most likely do that with almost any post by anyone and come to the same conclusion, so I don't understand how that makes me more suspicious other than just a gut feeling.

That's actually completely true, Pete. In my head before the start of the game, I came up with how I thought each player would act if they were innocent and how they'd act if they were evil. Out of everyone, your posts matched my perception of how I thought you'd act if you were evil the most, and lots of what you've done since has continued to match although I'm doing my best to eliminate preconceived bias now. I'm not so fixated on you being evil than I'm unwilling to compromise for the greater good, however, if other people stand out more. If I'm wrong about you, sorry, but I'm just trying to do a good job investigating, and you are one of the people I'm most suspicious of at this point.

Just to re-iterate, I find Pete suspicious because:
1) DragonSnow completes his survey and doesn't say whether or not he has an evil role.
2) Jackie immediately votes for DragonSnow for this reason.
3) Pete answers his survey right after Jackie's vote saying one factor that we should look at will be if someone doesn't say they whether or not they not an evil role in their response.
4) DragonSnow then says there are "bigger threats," a statement which is immediately analyzed by Deetster, Merry Chrismoose, and Jackie among others while Merry Chrismoose states: "And you say 'bigger' threats... are you still a threat? Jack Frost maybe? "
5) Pete then votes for DragonSnow stating he thinks he is Jack Frost.
6) I accuse Pete of being suspicious for following the opinions of other players (among other things), and he switches from the 3rd vote of DragonSnow to the 1st vote of Christmas Dragon.
7) Pete justifies his decision for voting Christmas Dragon based on knowing that Tiffani enjoys the game and not wanting to vote for her, but uses the typical "anti-lurker" mentality that many others have previously expressed as a good reason to send Christmas Dragon to Ice Jail.
8. Tiffani shows back up, and the majority switches from Tiffani to Christmas Dragon.
9) Pete continues to post long, rational statements that most people seem to be agreeing with concerning his reason for sending Christmas Dragon to Ice Jail, but still states that he wanted to keep Tiffani around because it was personal. Which is different from what Jackie and I arguing.

As I just looked back and typed all that, for some reason, my suspicion level of you has actually decreased, Pete, lol. I still think you could easily be an evil role, and you seemed to have switched your style after I accused you for just following someone else's vote to starting your own vote and making it a vote that people would likely agree with. It almost seems like you could be attempting to play "over rational" and "over logical" and making nice long posts that you think will get you support. At the same time, if you're not evil, then these posts are some of the best in the game, so that's something I have to think about. One thing I also recall, Pete, is that you said that you and Tiffani agreed not to vote with one another or something similar to that after I died in the Saw game when you were evil roles so you wouldn't be associated. Therefore, I would not be surprised if you do turn out to be evil that one person (or both of the people?) who you're working with likely was/were one/two of the main people targeting Tiffani. Just to put that possibility out there. These sides are not defined one way or another. People are likely going to be mixed, or strategically staying away from the sides in the first place.

I feel like, based on her posts, Tiffani's coming off as extremely honest and genuine. I also completely get Jackie's frustration because I argued similarly with Kenya and Merry Chrismoose last round because it makes perfect sense to me why Tiffani was not a good choice to lynch last round, and while I do enjoy playing with her, it was ultimately a strategic move for the greater good why I wanted to keep her around whether she came back that last day or not. I'm struggling right now with whether or not Kenya/Merry Chrismoose are just honestly on a different understanding, or if they get what we're saying and are pretending not to in order to throw us under the bus since we were defending her. I think a likely scenario would be that one of them is evil and is simply feeding off the opinions of the other to potentially get support down the road, but I really don't think that they're both evil. And I'm also highly keeping in mind the fact that we all could be good and simply have different philosophies that may split the town down the road while the real evil players are staying under the radar.

I can't get rid of this fixation that we hit on something with DragonSnow the first round, and I sort of want some finality with that because it seems to me like DragonSnow was scrambling and acting completely out of his standard playing style. Kenya, Pete, and Jackie, at least one of whom I think is likely evil, all voted for him at one point but retracted. And it seems to me like someone evil would do just that to sort of "clear" their connection.

So, for now, I vote for DragonSnow because he is still the most suspicious player to me, and I'd like to at least hear his thoughts and everyone else's before I vote for one of the more active, potentially suspicious players. This vote can and likely will change at several points during this round.

Alright I will read up on everything when I get a chance.. but for now I'm informing you that DragonSnow and I will not be posting as much as we normally do.. because our DSL modem died.. and we can't get another one for about a weekish. So now we are on dial up.. and everyone knows how crappy dial up is.. although I will most likely just post from my phone.. or at least read everything on my phone and then post on here.. since it's easier to type rather than use a mini keyboard.. and DragonSnow will do his best too.

Just thought I'd let you all know.. now to go and load pages to actually read everything that's been going on..

Majority is 6 Votes
Deadline is 22nd December 2010

VOTES:
Snowy Pete, (1/6) - Kenya TheRedNosedReindeer
Jackie Frost, (1/6)- Merry Chrismoose
DragonSnow, (2/6) - Snowy Pete, Ghost of Christmas Brant
Kenya TheRedNosedReindeer, (1/6) - Jackie Frost


Pending Votes (6):
Caroling Cam, Tiffani Tree, Merry Mandie, Bah HumPhoc, DragonSnow ((DT)), Dasher Deetster


I noticed there hasn't been a vote count yet, please correct me if I missed anything.

^^^^^
thanks for the vote count!

Everything is fine.

Tiffani, Well for me.. my phone company which is also my internet provider.. if your dsl is crapped out.. they will let you use dial up for free until it's fixed.. but of course that means you'd have to have a dial up option.. and since your phone line was dead too.. dial up would be no use.. but today this situation just happened to us as I explained up there.. and one of the laptops in the house does have a 56k Modem for dial up. I just know that they give me options because we're still paying for the highspeed and I'd refuse to pay if they didn't give me something to use while waiting for the new modem.

Also I never said you were just lurking.. that was not me.. others said that.. I knew you weren't around for some reason or another.. my issue is we didn't know when you'd be back.. whether it would be right away or whether it would be in a few weeks. That's the only reason I even pushed for you to go but the moment you came back I did retract my vote and I am very glad you are back and that everything is okay! I have no knowledge about what has happened to you in the past.. I've only played with you in these werewolf games, never talked to you outside of them so how am I supposed to know? It could have been anyone in the game and I still would have voted accordingly for the reasons I've already stated.. I didn't know when you'd be back and that worried me.

Jackie, I do agree with if someone is more suspicious than a lurker they should go BUT like I just said above.. I was worried she'd be gone for more than a round. Just as it was possible it could have happened, I'm glad it didn't because I do enjoy playing with Tiffani and would much rather have her in the game than someone that just is the last vote every round. What I was trying to hint to you by my comment that I can't be put in jail this round, I would have thought you would have picked up on that. But nonetheless it's alright, after this day is over I will prove it to you that I am innocent . Hopefully I won't be making a mistake by assuming that you are innocent.

Yikes, I am sorry to hear that Kenya. This has not been a good game for computer health.


Mandie, please understand that this is a where the town is always risking lynching one of their own when they lynch. If we only waited until we were absolutely sure about somebody's role, then the town would never win, by the time we got our stuff together, the bad guys will have wiped out enough townies to win the game mathematically. We have to take risks and get things in the open in this game if the town is gonna win, and Dragonldy just doesn't help us with that, regardless of her role. This game operates differently than most, you need to speak and speculate, unless you are a bad guy then you just need to eliminate, because you would know exactly who needs to go at all times.

Also this is a game where the only way the town can get anything done is if we pick apart everything that is said during the day phase. When players like Dragonldy do nothing but vote and agree with bandwagons, we can't do anything but guess about them, and in this game that is dangerous, and frankly, boring and annoying. Sure she was innocent and that sucks, but if we played like you suggest and never put pressure on her, she would always get away with being an evil role because she would never have to incriminate herself. It is also a game of many playing styles. Everybody has a different one. She plays merely to survive it seems, I get the feeling she just likes to eliminate other players, which to me is a very 'scummy' way to play. I play to win, and to me that means contributing as much as I can so my team wins, not just "survivoring" (there, I gave it a name). I don't care if that puts me in the line of fire to get night killed or lynched (well I guess getting lynched does suck) but as long as my team wins, I win. I never play the game with personal-level motives in mind. I play with playing-style motives in mind.


Also, the angel role doesn't need to save a specific person I don't think, just needs to use the ability to save whoever might die that night.

Kenya TheRedNosedReindeer wrote:

Jackie, I do agree with if someone is more suspicious than a lurker they should go BUT like I just said above.. I was worried she'd be gone for more than a round. Just as it was possible it could have happened, I'm glad it didn't because I do enjoy playing with Tiffani and would much rather have her in the game than someone that just is the last vote every round. What I was trying to hint to you by my comment that I can't be put in jail this round, I would have thought you would have picked up on that. But nonetheless it's alright, after this day is over I will prove it to you that I am innocent . Hopefully I won't be making a mistake by assuming that you are innocent.

Er, I'm probably making this worse by pointing this out, but...by saying what you just did, it gives the evil roles some more knowledge to work with that could definitely hurt us and help them over the night and looking forward.

Also, it sucks that everyone's having Internet problems. Boo. I don't have phone service (so no dial-up or DSL) in my house, but our Internet comes through the cable lines. So if we lose cable in some upcoming snowstorm, I'll disappear, but hopefully that doesn't happen. No major snow on the forecast that I can think of until after this deadline at least.

Merry Chrismoose wrote:

I too find myself posting my views multiple times because of apparent misunderstandings. You defended her place in the game by not voting for her and stating why, that is defending her in my book. You also made a post in the beginning of the round alluding to the fact that we were 'scared' off the Tiff vote coming back to bite us, once she was revealed to be innocent. The allusion is so strong as to come off as a claim of knowledge to me. You even seemed to ignore my suspicions in my follow-up post of this occurrence, which I will bold. To satisfy what I see in this case and your requests for #3:

Merry Chrismoose wrote:

My vote for you is likely to change, because as you say, these events really do seem out of the realm of reasonable possibilities, yet they are possible.

Jackie Frost wrote:

If you(Kenya) and derBmoose thought it was so strange that Tiffani showed up and votes were retracted why did you not say something at the time? And if you really thought Tiffani showing up was suspicious why not keep your votes on her and keep pushing the vote for her? Possibly because it would make you look bad if she was successfully taken to ice jail and you were the two most adamant about it?

To respond to why I didn't speak up against the switch in votes, it was because Tiff did indeed show up, and while it didn't do a whole lot to shift my suspicions, I felt Tiffani had the vastly superior track record in regards to lurker vs contributor, so I opted to vote for Dragonldy. The choice was not a hard one for me to make.

However, the way you speak about Tiff here makes it sound like you are adamantly positive she would have turned out to be innocent. What makes you think that when she was absent the whole round?

I will admit, I falsely labeled her a lurker, per your definition. I am wiling to re-label the situation as Tiffani was appearing to be a no-show.

These observations are likely to be riddled with misunderstandings as well if you are innocent. This is where I am coming from as well, I only know as much as I can read, nobody is capable of giving the full story, they are going to be filled with holes and incomplete information. You have every right to be suspicious of me for it, just as I for you, but you must at least understand where I am coming from? From where I sit, this is my best lead aside from the others that are on the table, and I am trying to use our day phase to it's best potential.


I, too, hope the contribution levels will be up from last game. That was a nightmare. You must see where I am coming from with my mentality against people who don't post. Now that we have a past round to go off of we can leave that mentality behind a little, but in the first round we have no past actions to go off of, so I felt that whoever wasn't going to be able to contribute was only going to hold us back. You had more explicit knowledge of Tiff's situation than I did, I was just acting on my beliefs that quiet people are deadly people.

And again, you mis-state. I clearly said I did not defend her because she was my friend. I never said I didn't defend her. What I was defending, though, was her chance to play the game.

As far as my post that you could be 'scared' of voting Tiffani and having that come back to bite you, why would that mean I have specific knowledge of her role? The very words 'could be' infer that I mean IF she is innocent and you pushed so hard for her vote, then it could come back to bite you. Of course it could, as could any vote against an innocent person. Why would that be in dispute at all?

I am not "ignoring" anything about your posts. In my post above where you quoted me saying "if she was successfully taken to ice jail and you were the two most adamant about it?" I think it was obvious I meant "if" she was innocent. If I actually had knowledge that she was innocent and I had an evil role, why would I defend her so strongly? My assumption has to be that people are innocent unless I have reason to think otherwise. 8 out of 11 of us are innocent, afterall.

As far as where you are coming from, I would actually like to know if you have any other reasons besides the Tiffani situation? If you do, I'd love to hear them. If not then, no, I really don't see where you are coming from at all.

I would also like to correct your insinuations that I am ignoring anything about your posts. I have responded to both you and Kenya (this day round and last) in very detailed posts. If I miss a sentence, instead of accusing me of ignoring you, maybe you could just tell me you would like a response. I'll be happy to respond to anything specific questions you may have. Other than that, I will respond to what I feel I need to. Even then, I'm not going to go word for word in responding to anyone's posts.

I do agree that quiet people (lurkers) are dangerous to the game. That was not the case for Tiffani and I will defend the fact that she had no control over her situation until the cows...or in your case the moose...come home.

Kenya TheRedNosedReindeer wrote:

Jackie, I do agree with if someone is more suspicious than a lurker they should go BUT like I just said above.. I was worried she'd be gone for more than a round. Just as it was possible it could have happened, I'm glad it didn't because I do enjoy playing with Tiffani and would much rather have her in the game than someone that just is the last vote every round. What I was trying to hint to you by my comment that I can't be put in jail this round, I would have thought you would have picked up on that. But nonetheless it's alright, after this day is over I will prove it to you that I am innocent . Hopefully I won't be making a mistake by assuming that you are innocent.

LOL I had actually guessed that (I still wanted to see your reaction from my vote) but I did miss your hint. Thanks for hitting me over the head with it, though.


I retract my vote from Kenya

I vote for derBmoose


Same reasons as last [round] and I will add to my reasons the fact that Brant's idea that one of the two of them are truly misunderstanding and the other one is just feeding off that makes sense to me. Since Kenya can't die I'll just go after the big Canadian moose.

Oh, speaking of Canada, I just got back from the UPS store. I shipped my presents to my Canadian family members and now I feel SO much better.


[edited]

The phone people were here again and I was sending out major voodoo vibes and curses on their lives if anything happened again lol My neighbor and I had a nice bitch fest outside about having no phone for over a week. I guess some people were being rude and all "oh you didn't pay your bill" and I told her to tell them to STUFF it lol
Anyway, if you have never tried Pad See U, go get some right now, delicious!!! hahahahah totally off topic i know lmao

I think what's happening here is this.............Jackie knows me as a friend and said "it has to be internet problems" then as a player she said "Tiffani is usually more active than Dragonlady, lets give her a chance to come back" But because she added the part about knowing me personally and knowing I wouldn't just abandon the game without any notice whatsoever, she used our personal history to state that it's probably not permanent. Some of you are seeing that as a defense, which really wasnt' the defense part, just the "i know what's going on even though I haven't talked to her because I know her" the defense was "Tiffani is usually more active than Dragonlady, lets give her a chance to come back" lol It's no different then Brant, Pete or Deet saying the same thing, the difference is, because Jackie included knowing how I am in regards to just disappearing or not, it's being kind of thrown in her face that it's just cuz we're friends. It's not.

Kenya, thank you for clearing that up for me. I find your post to satisfy my initial irritation. I was honestly all WTF about it, but now I understand your point more.

Mandie, I'm sorry but I believe that getting rid of Dragonlady was more helpful than it might seem. You might be quiet but you always have something to contribute, Donna didn't. She just bandwagoned and voted, that's it.

Merry Mandie wrote:

Well, I just woke up and as usual, had 3 pages of posts to read through First.... Im going to state my feelings and opinions ......


I am disapointed.

Yall lynched an elf. Someone who is quiet, like myself, yall lynched, and they weren't even evil. That does NOT help us guys... imo.

No one died last night. This doesnt help either. My opinion is that the Grinches did this on purpose. I would be surprised if the Angel saved the ONE person, on NIGHT 1.. that the grinches wanted to kill. Perhaps I am wrong, but thats my opinion.

Maybe I just totally suck at this game, but the only person that acted suspcious in my eyes last round was DragonSnow, and I'll state again.... I dont think this person is a grinch but I agree, they do have a role. Which brings me back to my point..... THIS DOESNT HELP.

I dont feel comfortable voting for someone that probably has a role but maybe not an evil one. I dont feel comfortable voting for quiet people just because yall think they are lurkers and don't help. Yall are likely to do the same thing to me and again, it wont help you. Killing off innocents is never good. I read every comment yall post in this thread and find myself becoming annoyed with some of the stuff yall just so casually throw out there.

Where is Deetster?

Mandie, I agree 100% with derBmoose's response to you. He said it very well and I don't want to duplicate. But, that being said, what would you suggest? Who would you suggest we vote and why?

UGH now i have to go back and read these hints!

I almost want to tell you but I agree with Brant that the info could be used against us by evil forces....however, Kenya can still "do the right thing" she just needs to be careful about what she reveals.

I dont suggest we vote anyone at the moment. I dont like throwing names around unless I have a reason to do so, and right now, I dont. So, I can't answer your question Jackie.

I asked earlier, but Where is Deet?

Majority is 6 Votes
Deadline is 22nd December 2010

VOTES:
Snowy Pete, (1/6) - Kenya TheRedNosedReindeer
Jackie Frost, (1/6)- Merry Chrismoose
DragonSnow, (2/6) - Snowy Pete, Ghost of Christmas Brant
Merry Chrismoose (1/6) - Jackie Frost


Pending Votes (6):
Caroling Cam, Tiffani Tree, Merry Mandie, Bah HumPhoc, DragonSnow ((DT)), Dasher Deetster

Merry Mandie wrote:

I asked earlier, but Where is Deet?

I agree, where is Deet? I asked myself this when I read the Day 1 thread. He did this in Mafia as well. Maybe he's too busy with school? Why isn't there a huge line waiting to throw his ass in jail? lol jk