Disappointed.

This is completely my opinion and I am entitled to it, as you are entitled to yours I welcome responses, positive or negative, because having an open discussion allows both sides to better understand the other's position.


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I was watching TV this morning and noticed a newspaper on the shelf below the coffee table - my parents get the Roman Catholic newspaper that comes every week. While I was raised Catholic I no longer fully believe in what that institution has to say, and today made me think even harder about it.

I picked up the paper because the front page story was about how the guy who runs (or at least represents) this Pro-Marriage group in my state. Pro-Marriage, meaning upholding the law (or exclusivity pertaining to) marriage between a man and a woman only. This guy held a speech at my high school, and as far as I can tell, all of the freshmen were made to sit there and listen to this man talk about why marriage is sacred and should be upheld to be between only one man and one woman. The opinions that he instilled into kids who are 14 and 15 was a means of getting them to sign up for something called the Human Life Guild - young teenagers who will now have the chance to be called in front of RI legislature to testify (or rather replicate the ideas of others) why the assumed definition of marriage (one man, one woman) should be kept in place in the state. While I understand that I went to a high school that is run by the Roman Catholic Church, I am completely, absolutely, embarrassed.

After having an experience of going to this school, and then doing an almost 180 and attending a college where the gay community was most accepted among the entire country, I feel like I can see both sides of the story. However, to me, love is love is love - if you love another person you should have the right to get married to them. I don't know if gay marriage will ever fully be passed as a national law, but to me, it's sad that I live somewhere where it's not allowed. A lot of gay couples move to other states, which is disappointing that people have to uproot their lives to be happier.

I understand that people have their own opinions - if you don't want men marrying men and women marrying women, that's your own thought process, but The Bible is not the law of the government (or is it?)

If you think about it, just over 40 years ago, in 16 states a white person could not marry a black person, or an asian person, or a native american person, or in some cases - a non-white person. That troubles me that it took over 150 years for all 50 states to finally repeal laws prohibiting interracial marriage. We've come a long way since then, but I wonder if it will take another 150 years for a group of people labeled "different" to be accepted.

I have always said, and i'll say it again.... I dont know why people give a fuck about two dudes or two chicks getting married. They arent hurting anyone. Let em get married.

Maybe we should have a hot topics forum for things such as this.

The issue is marriage. Marriage being a sacrament of the church...I feel as though legally, all people under the government one should enter a "civil union" with whomever they choose, man or woman. These civil unions will grant the same protections that "marriage" provides today. ALSO, you can do/call it whatever you want. Say you got married. Say you got a civil union. Say you had a commitment ceremony whatever. Semantics is at the heart of the issue in my mind.

If we hold true to the concept of separation of church and state, then I don't understand how we can allow the Church to make the legislative calls. So yeah. I won't even get into the economic benefits that it would provide to states but I think the pros definitely outweigh the cons.

if I had a kid at that school I'd pull them immediately, that is wrong on so many levels that he is allowed to preach that to the students.

I know I'm lucky to live in MA where I can marry a guy if I so choose and not worry about a lot of things you have to in other states. It's sad though, cause it really isn't hurting anyone else but people just are too blind to see that. They are too busy committing what their own religion states is the biggest sin, judging. (not that we don't all judge, but acting on a judgement you make on another, that is the biggest sin in my eyes)

Just my opinion, and I'll leave it at that.

I'm not opposed to Catholic schools teaching Catholic beliefs, a lot of people who go there support those things and those who do not are aware they are going to Catholic school. Parents may specifically send their children to Catholic school so they are exposed to certain beliefs, like marriage is supposed to be between one man and one woman. Although other kids, like me, were sent to Catholic school because many offer quality education.

It definitely bothers me when churches (any religion, not just Catholic) are so unaccepting of people because of their sexual orientation and say they are going to hell, can't get married, etc. When you preach about love, charity, forgiveness, etc. how can you be so critical of other people? The laws are slowly changing and I believe that soon people will look back and be ashamed about how we denied people the right to marry.

I almost went to a Catholic school, but during the interview I told the priest that I couldn't believe in God because of Dinosaurs and they refuse to account for that in the church. I was 7 and REALLY into Dinosaurs. They didn't let me in, my mom thought it was hilarious.

I know that wasn't the point of this thread but I didn't think I really needed to comment on that, I doubt anyone here is really going to be like "That guy is right!" this board specifically having a very high gay community, HAHA!

Yay for Canada allowing gay marriage :D

But I mean like... I'm a Christian (Protestant). I have been my whole life. I've never once doubted my love of God. What I doubt is people's interpretations. I've read a bunch of the Bible, I've listened to sermons, I've taken courses and I have read books and articles.

The most common scripture people quote while arguing against homosexuality is Leviticus 18:22, where it says "You shall not lie with a man as with a woman; that is an abomination."

I read this one AMAZING and hilarious book though, called The Year of Living Biblically. It's about a secular man who decides to live for one year by following EVERY rule in the bible. Each day, he'd speak to a different religious figure or person. I honestly learned so much. But he went to pro-gay church one day, and they talked a bit about it.

And what they said about that line is really interesting. They interpret it as rape, which is further interpreted as disrespect. Since woman weren't equal back then, if you "lay with a man as you lay with a woman", then you're disrespecting him. Another thing they mentioned was that back then, in battle, the winning side would often rape the bodies of the losing side, again, as a form of disrespect. They had a few other good points, but I don't have the book in front of me at the moment, lol. That's all I remember.

But I think it's ridiculous when Christians focus so hard on these issues. That was one thing I never liked about Church. During the summer, I went on a quest to determine what denomination of Christianity I truly was. I've attended Presbyterian and Baptist churches my whole life (my family developed some issues with the Presbyterian perspective, so we switched. I was young, I can't remember why exactly). But I never really felt either of those suited me.

That's when I read about the Red Letter Christians, and I immediately knew that's what I was. In many Bibles, Jesus' words are in red, which is why they're called that. But they say that homosexuality and abortion and war and all those other things aren't the main point of the Bible. They don't focus on those things. They just focus on the words Jesus said. When he says to feed the hungry, you should feed the hungry. When he says to clothe the naked, do it. Basically, the Red Letter Christians are all about compassion, and they rejected the hate that often comes along with religion.

So yes, I'm very glad I had my summer of self-discovery, because I was sick of people assuming I'm against gay marriage just because I had the label of "Christian".

I agree with you Sadie - the school has every right (sadly) to have their set of beliefs, and those who are not Catholic (when I went there there were quite a few kids that were not Catholic and were aware that the ideology behind things didn't mean anything to them) - I just don't like how it seems like they made all the freshmen sit through that...I don't like that part.

Zack wrote:

Semantics is at the heart of the issue in my mind.

Yes and no. On one hand, I'd be extremely happy if they finally said, "Okay, gays, you can 'enter civil unions' which means you get EXACTLY the same thing as the straights," but on the other, I wouldn't, because the fact that they have to go so out of their way to call it something different pisses me off. I know that we'd be getting the same treatment, but they're STILL saying we can't be married. I'm not a very "but it's the principle" kind of person, but this one pisses me off.

I think the big issue is that people don't understand the difference between a religious marriage and a civil marriage. Some people are so dumb that they can't understand the concept of being married without having a ceremony. I know a couple of couples who got married simply by going down to the courthouse and getting the papers all signed and whatnot. Still married. I'm not asking to get married in a church; the church doesn't have to acknowledge my marriage, but here's the thing: I shouldn't have to worry about what the church thinks, because the church shouldn't have any control over my rights and actions as a citizen. Someone would have to check me on this, but getting married at a church is considered a legal marriage too, right? If so, I don't think it should be. I don't think the church should have any ability to marry anyone in terms of the state. Wanna be married legally? Go to the fucking courthouse.

Pete wrote:

They are too busy committing what their own religion states is the biggest sin, judging.

Love it. Who am I to judge? It doesn't affect me, and if God is real, he'll take care of it. As far as I'm concerned, I'll never know, so I'm going to live my life according to how my gut feels. If something feel wrong, I won't do it. If something feels right, I will. No one can tell me which is right and wrong, because so long as I'm not infringing upon their lives, it just doesn't affect them.

Sadie Jane wrote:

I'm not opposed to Catholic schools teaching Catholic beliefs, a lot of people who go there support those things and those who do not are aware they are going to Catholic school.

Agree. You know what you're getting into when you send your kid to a Catholic school. If you don't agree with what they're allowed to teach, then don't send em there. Or just deal with it, and talk to your kids about it. See what they think; help them form their own opinions. They aren't supposed to learn everything from their teachers...

Professor MoMo wrote:

I almost went to a Catholic school, but during the interview I told the priest that I couldn't believe in God because of Dinosaurs and they refuse to account for that in the church. I was 7 and REALLY into Dinosaurs. They didn't let me in, my mom thought it was hilarious.

I know that wasn't the point of this thread but I didn't think I really needed to comment on that, I doubt anyone here is really going to be like "That guy is right!" this board specifically having a very high gay community, HAHA!

An interview? Wtf kind of school were you trying to get into?



Now, I went to Catholic schools for thirteen years. I didn't have a choice, and I learned pretty early on that a lot of the stuff we did/said/were taught were not things I agreed with. But I also learned to keep my mouth shut, because it wasn't worth trying to convince those who were teaching. I can form my own opinions, I can be myself even if others don't want me to be, and I don't need to force anyone to agree. In grade school I kept those opinions to myself, and as long as I answered correctly on tests, who cares? Is it really worth it to stand up to people who won't listen? No, just take the fucking A.

My high school was Catholic, but it was SUUUUUUUUUUPER liberal. We were taught things that flat out didn't agree with generally accepted Catholic views. We learned that gay marriage was discrimination; we talked about which parts of the Bible were likely to be true and which were stories for the sake of teaching; and we we encouraged to consider other religions, their customs, and their beliefs in order to form our own ideas. We had entire courses on Judaism and Islam, and we had a whole course on Eastern Spiritualities. They definitely allowed us to think for ourselves, and they didn't take shit from bigots. Looking back, I could've come out in high school, and aside for the chatter that would've happened for a day or two after, no one woulda given a rat's ass.

Hell, gay couples were allowed to go to prom at our school.